I was wondering what viewpoints and opinions this community has when it comes to cryptocurrency.
Personally, I’m not against it, but I’m not for it either. I like the concept of bringing back cash anonymity, and also decentralization (obviously). Although I don’t think it will be viable for at least another decade.
I use it on a regular basis. I also run a non-profit that funds open source tools for scientists, it makes accepting donations a lot easier for us among other benefits for our donors (they don’t have to pay capital gains on the coins they donate, just like stocks).
Bitcoin is pretty incredible and offers decent anonymity which continues to improve, Monero offers more. Lots of scams in the “crypto world”, but Bitcoin has faithfully kept its fiscal policy promises for 15 years:
- Fixed supply of 21 million coins. Your money’s value is not diluted by supply inflation.
- You can send funds to anybody in the world with a smartphone and a halfway reliable internet connection in under a second for pennies in fees (with Bitcoin lightning). And you can do it from your couch, no banks required.
- It has operated 365 days a year, 24/7 without a single hour of downtime, bank holiday, or hack, and has survived attacks from many angles including nation-state actors.
- At every possible turn it has chosen decentralization and security. I can’t say the same for most other coins.
- And it has done this with < 1% of global electricity usage, mostly from renewables and other “stranded” supply. Pretty powerful stuff.
Monero’s privacy features can be absorbed into the Bitcoin protocol whenever Bitcoin decides it wants to, that is the biggest long-term risk to Monero IMO. That and centralization of block production due to increased block size. Bitcoin worked around this block size problem with L2s like lightning, Monero chose bigger blocks though of course it could always add an L2 if it wants to.
“Monero’s privacy features can be absorbed into the Bitcoin protocol whenever Bitcoin decides it wants to”
I think that’s the biggest flaw in your thinking. Monero has this built-in from the start and everyone using it knows it and supports this approach. It affects how legislators can manipulate the coin because they can’t, it will keep on living. It already affects the true value of the coin with all privacy included, because you can see how exchanges are unwilling to list it or are delisting it if they already did so, so there are no (or hardly any) institutions or billionaires manipulating the price because of the high risk factor of losing their money. You’re forgetting that people in power nowadays are brainwashing us to accept that a wanting a fundamental right like privacy equals you’re doing criminal activity or have plans to do so. There are A TON of reasons why bitcoin will never include such strong privacy features, because there are so many factors that influence this decision to make it possible, and the dominant reason you see that matters to btc holders (or any other crypto token for that matter) is NUMBER GO UP. Privacy is not a number go up reason. So it’s not a tech issue, it’s a people issue
I use Monero for private transactions and I am thankful for the existence of a private, untraceable currency (like most cash transactions IRL). I am concerned by the amount of energy expended on crypto-mining… it a dreadful use of energy that could be used for far more productive purposes.
Honest question, since the goal of cryptocurrencies is to illuminate the banking system. Roughly how much energy does the banking system use? Because if mining uses less than that, it would be a net improvement.
The banking system uses magnitudes more.
The big banks pushed a huge misinformation campaign to convince people that cryptocurrency was using lots of energy, but its negligible next to the banks.
Its like tobacco companies trying to convince us that smoking is healthy. You need experts to disprove the well-funded misinformation
It’s possible to see an estimate of how much electricity is being used for bitcoin (obviously not the only currency being mined). Higher prices results in more mining so the amount of electricity varies all the time. Here’s a graph showing estimates of energy consumption. I guess you can come up with an estimate because you could have an idea of how much it costs to mine a bitcoin and you would see them entering circulation on the blockchain.
During its peak in 2021 it was using about the same amount of electricity as Norway or Argentina uses in a year (according to a University of Cambridge analysis).
Compared to these amounts the banking system would be using a tiny proportion given that fiat currencies don’t need to be mined they are just created by the banks when they issue loans.
Don’t forget the other things that go into the banking system though. You’ve got the mining for minerals to make their buildings. You’ve got the gas that it takes to get employees to and from work, the electricity to power those buildings, the electricity to make and distribute coins and physical money, The presses and machines to make physical currency, etc. And there’s probably a ton I am missing.
You can certainly include all that stuff too, but the banking system provides services for 67% of the world’s population. Bitcoin is owned by about 100 million people.
BTC, ETH, and XMR are the only ones that matter. Some stable coins (USDC, GUSD) are okay, too.
BTC(Bitcoin) is good because it’s the most widespread. If a vendor accepts crypto, odds are they accept BTC. However, the blockchain is easily traceable.
ETH (Ethereum) is good because it’s blockchain is far more versatile, so it can be used for other things than just crypto payments. However, it’s less widely used for payments than BTC and is also easily traceable.
XMR (Monero) is excellent. It’s extremely difficult to track an individual user. Your transactions are private. There are some possible attack vectors for the future, but they’d require that you be an actual target to be worthwhile. Someone that’s going to track you is going to find a different way than XMR to do it. XMR isn’t as widely used as the others, though, and it’s also not on as many crypto exchanges. Kraken has it.
However, crypto as an investment is not a good idea. Spend your crypto.
Ethereum is unregistered security token.
Use Monero. Since the amount you send is private, who you send to is private, you are private when you send. Unless you are targeted specifically, it’s unlikely that your transactions will be figured out.I use Monero a lot and I don’t really care about the fiat value of it because I’m using it as a currency to buy my food, pay my insurance, pay for my phone bill, etc.So what happens is since I have to pay bills in it, I end up buying it every single month and then spending what I need on bills and saving the rest.I am not it for number go up like the rest of these crypto bros are. I want to ditch the manipulative government fiat system entirely, and that’s the end I hope to achieve by opting out.
I’m going to have to look into it again. Can you recommend any services that accept it? Most only support Bitcoin, if any (e.g. ProtonMail).
Monerica.com. Is a business directory of other businesses that accept Monero? A green checkmark means somebody has successfully used that business. A red X means that somebody tried and it was a scam.
Also, if you have a GitHub and use a business that has not been used before and has no checkmark or crossmark, then please tell them about it with your GitHub. And you can always use services to convert from Monero to Bitcoin if necessary such as Trocador.app.
Cool, I’ll check it out! I’ve never actually used crypto to pay for something, so this will be a fun learning opportunity if anything.
It’s so fun because you really get the chance to use it and realize that you don’t need government currencies and permission from third parties to do what you want.
Yup, I’m going to start small with a VPN since Mullvad supports Monero. I’ve been meaning to get it set up on my router for a long time on a VLAN, and this seems like a good excuse.
Not sure what’s next, but might as well get started with just one.
Welcome to the dark side, my friend. You’re in good company.
I’m using it as a currency to buy my food, pay my insurance, pay for my phone bill, etc.So what happens is since I have to pay bills in it, I end up buying it every single month and then spending
how do you do all them things, if it’s not too much trouble?
For my food I buy an Instacart gift card and then just go pick it up when it’s ready. My insurance is through a friend who pays dollars and I pay them back in Monero and the phone bill is another gift card.
Edit: I am very seriously thinking about launching a phone service that accepts Monero only and would be a stable price in Monero.You can get some pretty decent deals from the carriers if you have more than a few lines on a business account.
I feel like people already top up phones with crypto. Its always one if the top ads on those gift card sites
From what I’ve seen, it’s mainly prepaid. With post paid, there isn’t a way to do it that I’m aware of besides buying a Visa or Mastercard prepaid card.Plus, the whole point would be to have a stable price in Monero. Those gift cards change price all the time with the fluctuation of the market. So, this would be more expensive, sure, but it would also be completely stable.Effectively acting as a price ceiling in Monero.
i think it’s really cool in theory, but only the anonymous ones. i don’t use crypto personally, but it’s important that something like it exists.
cryptobros and capitalism have ruined what little reputation the name had, and it’s obviously not going to replace “normal” money any time soon.
i feel like it’s kind of similar to the cashless systems that most banks use, but you’re trading lots of electricity for “not having the economy be owned by a couple of massive corporations”. obviously it has it’s flaws, but i see that as a worthwhile trade.
edit: oh yeah, i didn’t mention it, but this is another vote for monero (it’s private and it’s an esperanto word :P)
It’s really useful for committing crimes on the Internet but as a daily cash replacement I remain unconvinced mostly do to the woeful speed of confirming transactions in most currencies I’m aware of.
I dislike it being misused for gambling on it’s value, but see the importance of currencies like Monero.
I’m for it in theory. I explored it for a while, since at least March 2010, cf https://fabien.benetou.fr/Tools/Bitcoin
But, sadly, I’m against it in practice. You can see that the same page hasn’t been updated since 2016. This is because even though is does work, technically speaking (which is in itself a feat!), socially speaking the impact is IMHO negative. The main use case is speculation about itself and it comes at a huge side effect, namely energy usage (cf IEA’s https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/bitcoin-energy-use-estimates ). This isn’t even about taking into consideration much worst usages, e.g money laundering. Another difference since the early days is that traditional institutions have started to use or sell them. This is very positive in terms of trust, namely that such institutions do a lot of checks because they are legally required too. This is though quite negative from my own ideological standpoint on the very raise d’etre of cryptocurrency because I was initially seeing it through the lens of anarchy, where participants in a system rely on each other and manage their own structure. Few interesting projects happened along those lines, both physically and digitally, but in practice those are, in terms of volume of transactions (and thus energy consumption) marginal. They are mere demonstrations.
So yes I was excited by the prospect, both socially and technologically, but since I’ve became disillusioned. Cool idea, even cool implementation, boring usage, literally life threatening effect to our one single planet. Not worth it.
I will add this retrospective to my Bitcoin page to reflect that soon.
PS: I understand that Bitcoin is not all cryptocurrencies. I also dabbled (and by that I mean code, including making my own transactions to explore smart contract before it was in the main blockchain) with other cryptocurrencies, including Ethereum. I also had few assets which I liquidated a little while ago from at least 4 different cryptocurrencies. I’m using Bitcoin as a simplification for others because that’s where the value literally is today. I’d also argue, which is just me speculating here, that if Bitcoin falls, all other follows even if they’d be technically viable.
No as it pretty much a scam
I have used Bitcoin a number of times for international purchases. Its not really got to the point of currency so much as a medium mostly of speculation and often interchange for crime but it can improve your privacy. The user experience of the payments isn’t the best but international transfers are often hard to do anyway and in that particular field it can often be a lot quicker, cheaper and easier.
I think we can all agree on this at least, Monero is Love, Monero is Life
Amazing but transaction fees are still too high for normal daily use.
Not with L2s like Bitcoin lightning. Your fees come in under a penny in most cases and are not tied to chain space because they are not on chain. This is 100-1000x less than credit cards, for example.
Lightning is the universal answer
Monero transaction fees are between $0.01 to $0.00
Compare that to a bank wire feez which can easily be $100
bringing back cash anonymity
Most cryptocurrencies do not have this. It is trivial to tie bitcoin to an identity. Given the nature of publicly posting the transactional records, all it takes is tying any given purchase to someone one time, to identify them and view their entire purchase history.
Monero being an exception.
They’re called Privacy Coins for a reason. Monero is just one.
It’s more complicated than this, and it gets more complicated every year, especially with lightning. It’s certainly not monero in terms of privacy, but it’s not the same Bitcoin it was 10 years ago where this was more or less true.
Also note that lightning is an off-chain centralized approach. It loses a lot of benefits of decentralized layer 1 like bitcoin and monero. Privacy at a centralized entity is like having no privacy at all.
Look up a network map of lightning, it’s not centralized at all. Payments typically route through multiple hubs, just as many Bitcoin nodes may be involved in processing a main chain transaction. Anyone can run a lightning node, and you can choose which nodes you want to use, if you want. There are thousands of them to pick from.
The lightning channels are secured by the main chain. There is no centralized party who can rug you.
Trust me on this. I know what you’re thinking, “Blindly trust an internet stranger? No thank you.” That’s good, but this time, you should listen because you care about your privacy.
It’s not different enough to matter… yet.
Identifying users was still trivial as of 2 months ago, which is the last time I brushed up on implementing smart contracts. Bitcoin Lightning came out somewhere around 7 years ago. Unless something fresh and hot hit the market within the past 60 days, and has been implemented, do not, I repeat DO NOT trust your privacy to bitcoin, especially if you’re doing something your governing body disapproves of.
Monero’s privacy protections are still a generation ahead, but still not a big headache for the good ol’ 5-Eyes. Probably not for the 14-Eyes either, but who knows what they know.
I assume you’re talking about blatantly illegal transactions, like trafficking or drug deals, but if that’s not part of someone’s threat model, is Bitcoin still reasonable private?
As in, if we remove state-level actors from the threat model, is Bitcoin still safe enough? I’m more interested in not getting doxxed for my choice in VPN, email service, etc if I choose to run for office, and Bitcoin is accepted by enough places to be useful enough.
talking about blatantly illegal transactions, like trafficking or drug deals, but if that’s not part of someone’s threat model
I am talking about anything that might become a skeleton in your closet, when political winds change. If you:
- donate to anyone religious, vocally non-religious, political, controversial, extreme, or critical of government.
- are American and can be linked 3.5 degrees of Kevin Bacon to any Russian.
- purchase cakes from bigoted religious Christians.
- bought merchandise of controversial figures
- donated to the guy who taught his pug to Seig Heil and plan to visit Germany.
- transfer money to protesters.
- contribute to public defence funds.
- purchase “suspicious” amounts of nearly random chemicals for reasons you don’t care to explain.
- purchase novels with Russian or Chinese themes and undertones.
- do anything your governing body or enforcement division disapproves of.
The likely-hood of you becoming a big enough thorne for governments is small, but they are ultimately the key holder to your privacy. That should be your threat model.
if I choose to run for office
De-anonymizing crypto users is not illegal. Posting it is illegal, but finding out what you purchased for a smear campaign? Totally fine in most western countries. Advanced persistent threats would be that future’s threat model. It is not hard for large political organizations to hire teenage nosy geeks to dig up OSINT dirt. Your level of risk tolerance is your choice. If it’s too much hassle, it’s too much hassle.
That said, the largest governments in the world have signed a cooperative agreement to share and process data they are currently collecting, regardless of the legality of collecting it.
Purchasing privacy coin, using TOR(Yes, in caps. They don’t get to set the rules on acronyms.), doing anything “out of the ordinary” will likely warrant investigation into your affairs. Once they have that data, their track record of protecting it is not so good. “The Pentagon”, “ANAO”, and this one doesn’t even mention why the UK suddenly needs a new task force with Russian advanced persistent threats “on the horizon”.
Everybody else: If you just don’t want your neighbors to know you have a fetish, knock yourself out with lightning and have the package gift-wrapped.
Its awesome if you have some, its basically all time high price these days 😉
Well it was until today. It just went on sale
I think a lot of us first heard about bitcoin when Paypal shut down donations to Occupy Wall Street and later WikiLeaks.
Both of them turned to bitcoin to accept permissionless donations.
Bitcoin was just the first majorly successful coin. I think most orgs should accept Monero these days, for Privacy reasons.
