- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
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Like, I’d understand a free version of Windows that has the ads and bloat, but the idea that people are paying $100 for this disrespect is insane.
Ask your doctor if Linux is right for you
He prescribed me a medication but when I went to get it from the pharmacy they just gave me a bunch of precursor chemicals which are just toxic if not combined in the right way. When I asked for help the pharmacist just said “RTFM”
Also, what is a comorbidity?
I’m struggling to transition still, honestly… Windows visualised as a street gives me access to all the shops and window browsing I need, everyone wants to be there and get my attention, and despite the masses of intrusive advertising and shady people around every corner watching me, I don’t have to actively navigate the street itself very much. It’s a dystopian street of neon distractions and side hustles but you can mostly shut it out and walk.
Linux as a street is a lot barer, the street is cleaner and less intrusive, I’m not being watched from the alleyways… but there are knee high walls every few meters, there are open manhole covers here and there, and I have to actively persuade some shops to let me in or even open.
I don’t walk down a paved street for the joy of navigating an assault course, I walk down it to get places with the least amount of friction possible and I just can’t seem to get that from Linux yet. Then again Windows would like to start stopping me every few meters and asking intrusive questions or hocking me tat, so my move is inevitable.
Using windows will do that.
Linux never looked so hot.
That makes the OP eligible for Windows-refugee status tbh.
In Linux I wanted a window to open in a specific place on boot. Fairly simple bash script.
In Windows FUCK YOU.
With llm’s you can get a lot of bad info but for Linux commands, basic tutorials and scripting Linux is WAY easier to learn nowadays.
Edit didn’t mean to imply Linux is easier than Windows to learn in general.
Edit didn’t mean to imply Linux is easier than Windows to learn in general.
It is though. People just neglect that in today’s world, no one “learns” Windows from scratch.
Learning to do anything from scratch is easier on most Linux distros than on Windows. The tools are better and the documentation is light years ahead. Windows is a steaming pile of horseshit in comparison. But once you’ve made yourself a cozy nest in the middle of said pile, getting to the comfy whirlpool hot tub that is linux requires you to scale over the walls of horseshit surrounding your nest. And that is what makes people claim “but Linux hard, muh duh!”
In atleast 3 distros I wanted to add program at start-up, easy peasy on windows , Linux is mess , some has gui for that but these three distorsion HAD ZERO option for it and I still don’t know how to do it.
In windows i want to serch for here is program installed, so easy to know and find . In Linux I had to fight multiple terminal commands ( in 2024 no less) and ev n then indid not come across whwre is the program installed
In Linux I plugged in hdd and wanted a program to acess its content, turns out I can’t do that without mumbo jumbo or wv n with it Whwre as in windows , inplug it and VOILA! I can access it across anything.
Linux MAY be good at something , but it still sucks for real Common usage.
I had none of these issues and i don’t know what you are talking about.
If you install programs through your package manager they come with a start-menu entry just as easily findable as in Windows. If you don’t install programs with an installer in Windows you get the same problem.
Also mounting HDDs made its content accessible to all my programs so far, without any issue. I think you must have chosen extremely obscure distros or fucked things up by yourself during install processes.
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Which distros? Just saying Linux is kind of pointless. Linux is the kernel.
Some distros come with more pre-installed features and functions, some come with less.
Some are more average user-friendly than others.
I put Debian on my laptop and have not had any problems accessing external drives or plugging in multiple monitors.
No disrepect intended, but you do seem exceptionally tech challenged
With all due respect you seem like a friendless cunt that everyone cringes at when you enter the room because you act like you can’t be bothered with any conversation that doesn’t involve a lone condescending atoadaso without any further contribution to the conversation because that would take effort. We’ll done! You have lived up to the asshole IT guy noone liked way before you became useful.
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Registry keys are inferior but they do exist. The last time I used Windows I just had to set some magic reg keys and it was easy to make that happen.
I always found that deeply problematic. Here is some obscure path to follow to set some obscure value where half of the naming does not indicate what exactly you are doing there. Also if you don’t set the data-type exactly it wont work. For a fucking 0 or 1 off/on value flag.
It sucks, but at least it’s in a centralized location. Back in the INI file days you’d have to set the config in various places. Which, come to think of it, is kind of how things work in Linux.
Related to the OPs problem, do you know if there is a Startup folder in Windows still? Back in the Windows 95 days we could just drag a BAT script to that folder and it would always run on login.
Not like Linux and it’s loads of shell scripts and commands is so much different.
Yesterday I booted an antivirus live-cd compiled by a computer-magazine (aimed at IT-professionals and tinkerers). The ISO is a Ubuntu 22 release. The things I had to find out (as a mainly Windows user) to set a static IP was way too annoying. When I finally found out how to configure netplan and when I did I got a nice error that gateway4 is deprecated and to please use routes.
As someone else in a thread said: It’s nice and all that Linux fits some specific uses and users but it’s not really fit for every user.
Additionally there are too many ways to do the same thing. And it applies to distros as well. A Debian-solution might work to some degree in Ubuntu but if a RHEL way works in Debian or Ubuntu is your best guess.
on my i3wm workstation it’s literally a one liner in my config file, which is comprehensive across all of i3wm. Ignoring external scripts.
What’s the use case?
Just setup for various hobbies.
For example Launch freecad on my main screen, cura & firefox etc in their preset positions and windowed sizes on the second screen.
Would you mind sharing that script? That sounds incredibly useful lol. I’m new-ish to linux as my daily driver and love customizing it!
Oops
Thanks in party to the spirit in Lemmy (thanks guys and gals) and getting pissed off at the ever more enshittification, I really went full-on on taking back control, and I don’t mean just changing my home PC (mainly used for Gaming) from Windows to Linux, but also replacing the TV Box that’s bundled with my ISP subscription (and will be changing ISP when the current contract is over) with my own Mini-PC with Lubunto and Kodi (which is also my Torrenting host with an always-on VPN and my home’s NAS) replacing the original Samsung Android (which had been bloated due to updates to the point of filling up all memory) of my aging tablet, with LineageOS and even doing the same on my brand new Smartphone.
Granted, I’ve always had the spirit of avoiding “smarts” in stuff that doesn’t need it - like TVs - but now I went and as much as possible took back control on even the stuff that does need “smarts”.
So far I’m quite happy with it all: I’ve maintained (improved, even, such as my Tablet now having more available memory) my level of Tech access whilst cutting of the ways in which companies exploited my time and patience for advertising money - I definitely feel I’m better now than before: a lot of things became more convenient and less restricted than they were before.
Things are becoming really bad out there when it comes to treating customers as cattle to be milked and I reckon that the only future were Tech is actually a pleasure to use for users is for those people who take control back from the corps on all of their devices.
also thanks to lemmy I made the switch from Windows to Linux and I’ll never go back.
What distro did you settle on for your PC?
Since that machine is mostly for gaming, I went with Pop OS!
Pop!_OS is great, not just for gaming
doing the same on my brand new Smartphone
Watch out, rooting a phone may have unexpected consequences, like losing LTE on Samsungs or losing access to banking apps.
Banks are a bunch of dicks anyway. I recently received a ToS that forced me to have all my OSs on their latest update, and never install anything that doesn’t come from official stores.
Next day all of my money was in another bank.
You don’t lose banking apps, banks lose you
Well, that phone is a Xiaomi, not a Samsung (who had already made my shit list some years ago thanks to all their bloat), and the new ROM is just a bloat free MIUI, so from the same maker as the phone.
And yeah, as somebody else mentioned, if the banking app stopped working it would be the bank losing me - it wouldn’t be the first time I changed banks because they pissed me off.
Retail banking as a service is a commodity - they’re pretty much all the same - so sticking or not with a bank should be something one does based on cost and convenience and a banking app that doesn’t work on my phone reduces convenience.
As it so happens my banking app works fine.
That said, your alert can be important for other people and points one more reason to avoid Samsung like the plague.
Xiaomi is such a hidden gem. I just got a new wifi6 router off AliExpress for like $50 and threw openwrt on it in like 5 minutes.
I’d like to leave a warning for anyone working with Uber or Lyft as well, a friend of mine flashed his phone with a custom ROM and couldn’t work for a week until I managed to reflash the original ROM on it.
It took a while cause his phone was from a not so well known brand and it took a lot of hours on russian forums to find the stock ROM.
https://plexus.techlore.tech/applications/uber
Gotta check before you flash and fuck up a livelihood…
Note that if you are Uber user (idk about driver) their website is good enough; for me it works in Firefox mobile (in “Desktop” mode only). Lyft is app only…
Yes, I was talking about the driver apps. The apps won’t work on custom firmware, I know there’s some magisk thing you can do but there’s reports of account blockages in my country following that method.
I don’t understand why this meme [template] exists. Did they rocket this guy up there to shoot him? Why would be be in space if he couldn’t be trusted with the truth?
I think the original showed the earth being a flat disk and the first astronaut says “it’s really flat?” And the second one says “always has been”. But is about to shoot him to keep the knowledge of it safe from the masses.
But in this case, the one with the gun is Microsoft.
I’m not sure why you were downvoted but you’re right about the origin. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wait-its-all-ohio-always-has-been
Yes and why the fuck would someone like that be flown into space
It’s a meme.
It is? I remembered the original as the continent being a giant Idaho and the first astronaut asks “it’s all Idaho?”
Here’s what I found about it. https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/what-is-wait-its-all-ohio-the-always-has-been-meme-explained
PERFECT!
It’s so weird to me that Lemmy is full of anti-Windows, anti-Google posts but the comments are always “I’m thinking about switching.”
How about… just do it?
I don’t know what I’m trying to say but being 20 years into “Windows-free” a few years of “Google-free” it’s tiring. I know everyone isn’t me but it’s tough watching this from the other side.
Every day, a large number of people start using Linux for the first time. But the internet has a lot of people on it - so you can expect to see “I’m thinking about switching” posts for many years to come. Posts like that won’t slow down until Windows is in minority. (And that is unlikely to happen any time in the foreseeable future.)
Linux won’t work for my needs. I would switch if it did.
What are your needs, if I may ask?
Specific flight simulator hardware and specific audio/video hardware and software
I built my entire flight sim setup around Linux, X-Plane 12 has a native Linux version and all my hardware works flawlessly. MSFS2020 also works through Wine/Proton. But you can always create a Windows VM with GPU and SSD passthrough, (you can also pass through other PCIe and USB devices) and use that for your Windows-specific tasks. I use that for online games that require Windows-exclusive anti cheat solutions.
If you have windows in a VM do you need a license key
Nah, just use massgrave.dev
Getting rid of Google would require switching phone for me as there isn’t a google free ROM for the Redmi K50 Pro.
GrapheneOS for the Google Pixel. I’m using a Google Pixel 4 which was like $120 and super easy to flash. I’m from the US, so I understand if things might be different where you are.
That would be a hilariously bad downgrade. I could probably afford to replace mine with a Google Pixel 6, but that would still be a significant downgrade (90Hz screen). After having two phones at 120Hz, I won’t go lower.
25% reduction in refresh rate to only 4x the historical standard that most humans alive grew up with balanced against any semblance of privacy seems like an easy win…
It’s not just that though is it? It’s a slower SoC, less RAM, possibly less storage, lower screen resolution, and I would be spending money to get it after just upgrading my phone a few months ago. So a downgrade in every other category while paying for it. On top of that losing banking apps and breaking the warranty. In what world does that make sense?
It’s something I could consider when looking for a new phone, but not right now. The fact you have to buy a new phone just to get a different ROM is absurd. In the PC world you can just install any different OS you pretty much fancy, with relatively few hardware issues in the way (such as Nvidia).
I don’t know what you’re responding to, I’m responding to a comment about refresh rate.
They have the Google Pixel 8 which has a 120Hz refresh rate, if you can afford it.
I am sure it’s great, but I don’t want to spend that much on a phone. Honestly I think I will just keep my current phone for a couple more years, then buy something.
Also I don’t really want to lose access to my banking apps.
Calyx uses ug and I haven’t had banking issues. You can check plexus for your bank.
The Pixel 9 will come out in October, and the Pixel 8 will get much cheaper. Also there will be many used Pixel 8’s that will get sold for relatively cheap. These things aren’t like iPhones, they lose their value on the used market very quickly.
I’ve never owned an iPhone, so that comparison isn’t needed.
I can relate to the anxiety that comes with the thought of switching and finding out you’re missing something essential.
It wasn’t a big deal for me since I’ve used FOSS alternatives for almost everything even on Windows and was hardly gaming anymore when I made the switch (but somewhat ironically I started again on Linux). But that’s hardly the position most unhappy Windows users are in.
That’s a good point too.
I’m primarily a web developer so essentially my entire toolkit is already FOSS and it doesn’t make sense to even run half of it on Windows. Windows is usually the odd one out with weird hacks to make it play nice.
I use macOS a lot too and because it’s UNIX my Linux toolset is available and ported to the OS with (what I understand to be) minimal changes.
And I’ve never needed to deploy to some Windows Server either (the thought frightens me).
I gave Linux a try 2 or 3 times back when I was in school. It was a horrible user experience and games wouldn’t work back then.
Now that games on Linux are a thing, I would love to give it a try once more. But now I have a full-time office job and a family. When I’m off work, I just want to fire up the PC and have everything work, which it does with windows. I also have the Pro version of Windows 11 and don’t experience all of the ad horror that everyone here is talking about.
If I gain back the free time and mental capacity, I’ll give it a try.
It’s not like it’s difficult to switch these days. Try something like Bazzite or Nobara and gaming should work out of the box.
Keep in mind it’s still a drastic reduction in security by default.
What are you talking about? Windows isn’t very secure to begin with. Bazzite in particular is one of the more secure Linux desktop distros as it’s immutable and comes with SELinux enabled by default. It’s secure enough to actually cause me problems lol.
It’s a real challenge to get a fully encrypted system with secure boot (easier now but still hit or miss with Linux) and tpm.
What you’re describing is the user never security model which is as you said restrictive enough to be annoying, and more controlled than windows.
I don’t use or particularly believe in secure boot.
I have a fully encrypted root partition, with automatic unlocking using the TPM. Wasn’t even that hard to setup either. Bazzite makes it fairly easy to enroll a secure boot key if you really want that, as do some other distros. Nothing you are describing is that difficult.
A lot of systems use AppArmour instead of SELinux, as this is easier to work with while still providing enhanced security.
Bookmarking this comment, never heard of those distros!
They are gaming and content creation specific distros designed to work out of the box for those use cases. Lots of patches and stuff to improve performance and compatibility for gaming. Some hardware compatibility stuff is added too, such as bazzite having different images for laptops.
Only computer I have Windows on is my laptop and that’s only because it’s fairly new and laptops are notorious for proprietary hardware that’s hard to get decent drivers for. My desktop has had Linux for a couple of years and everything else runs Linux.
If you’ve got an external USB drive bigger than the laptop’s, and are willing to take the time, you could back it up by making a disk image with Clonezilla so you’re sure you have a backout option if you run into too much trouble getting Linux working
I tried a live USB image of Ubuntu and couldn’t get the touchscreen to work. I didn’t try out everything, but that was the first major issue.
Give it a couple weeks and maybe by then I’ll hopefully have upgraded from win10 on my desktop to either Spiral or Netrunner. Only thing holding me back from upgrading on my desktop right now is how much stuff I have to save to my new external drive and how it feels like a Herculean task.
Poor you
You know it’s not the same person posting every time
Some people have moved passed thinking about it. Others have just started. Its a growing sentiment and more people are starting to feel it.
It’s not easy committing to the change when you have no knowledge of the platform. The status quo is always easier until it no longer is.
Having seen how different Linux is from what it was 20 years ago, it’s way more approachable than it used to be. Most people could adjust pretty quickly, but with so much of the technical bits hidden from sight, the average PC user these days isn’t as tech savvy as they were many years ago, and making the switch can be intimidating.
Good point — I’m pretty far down the rabbit hole. I haven’t really wanted to mess with a non-UNIX/Linux based OS in ages.
Side note: what OS would that be besides DOS or Windows? Old-school Mac OS comes to mind (System 7) but I like playing with modern platforms more than older ones.
BeOS/Haiku?
I’m using Linux on servers and for self hosting, but Linux on a desktop is a sick joke.
Linux on desktop is amazing. My experience has been absolutely flawless.
Cool story.
Lmao, are you seriously salty that I gave my experience after you gave yours? Grow up little man.
Lol, who’s salty, kiddo?
That would be you, the one acting childish and calling people “kiddo”
You started it, I’m just using your type of language so it’s easier for you to understand. But I guess you play too much League Of Legends…
Except for (raytraced) games, for your Logitech keyboard, your Razer headset, your Xbox Controller not connecting, your Windows-only Software that won’t work.
It’s terrible. You probably just found a way to live with it and get used to.
Ray tracing works fine, I don’t know what you mean?
I don’t have a Logitech keyboard, but I find it hard to believe something as simple as a keyboard doesn’t work. I have a Logitech mouse and that’s completely fine.
My Xbox controller connects just fine with no special behaviour required.
Windows only software mostly works flawlessly. Almost all of my games are “windows only”, and they all work fine. Which is astonishing, really. How many other OSes virtually flawlessly run software from other OSes without any tinkering?
It’s amazing. Everything just works. Plug and play. No headaches like with Windows.
- Well Raytracing doesn’t work in Cyberpunk 2077. Besides that, some other games also have terrible performance. Even Minecraft, that’s running natively. Constant stutters with low GPU utilization.
- Logitech keyboard works but I cannot configure it because the software is not supported on Linux
- Xbox controller does not connect with the dongle unless I install the xone drivers
- I can think of a dozent more software other than the Logitech one that don’t have an installation for Linux
Sure you can fix any of these problems above like running Windows software with Wine or installing the appropriet drivers. But I don’t want to do that if I can just use Windows with no extra work.
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Ray tracing works in everything I’ve tried it in. I don’t have Cyberpunk but a quick Google tells me that it does have ray tracing and it does work in Linux.
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So the keyboard does work, you just insist on using one specific piece of software to make the keys pretty and refuse to use any others? Does it have a MacOS/iPadOS/Android version? I suspect not. Sounds like a shit product tbh, but it clearly works, unlike what you said earlier.
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Again, Xbox controller works fine. Wired, with the dongle, Bluetooth. All work great, no additional steps, completely plug and play.
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I can name a bunch of software that doesn’t support Windows, Mac, iOS, Android. I don’t see how this is an OS problem. Linux has wider software support than anything else.
You know you have to install drivers in Windows, right? And that it’s more cumbersome? With Linux in 99% of cases it’s in the kernel and you don’t need to install anything. Sometimes you’ll need to do something like type “Nvidia” into your software centre and click install.
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- Well Raytracing doesn’t work in Cyberpunk 2077. Besides that, some other games also have terrible performance. Even Minecraft, that’s running natively. Constant stutters with low GPU utilization.
I suspect you have GPU driver issues. What distro and graphics card are you running? Have you installed GPU drivers if your on Nvidia.
- Logitech keyboard works but I cannot configure it because the software is not supported on Linux
You just install solaar instead of the official software, one and done. Have you even tried?
- Xbox controller does not connect with the dongle unless I install the xone drivers
So install it then.
Sure you can fix any of these problems above like running Windows software with Wine or installing the appropriet drivers. But I don’t want to do that if I can just use Windows with no extra work.
None of this is extra work compared to working around Microsoft and Windows trying to push their garbage. Two Windows 11 systems breaking is what led to me switching back to Linux for the last time. Having to reinstall because of Windows issues is a lot more effort than installing a couple things.
Ray tracing works on Linux just fine. I don’t know what your talking about. I have software to control the lights on my Asus laptop keyboard if needed, my other keyboard is not addressable RGB anyway. I’ve seen Linux work with controllers too. Maybe not Xbox specifically, though I think there is a way to do that too.
Edit: Logitech keyboards have support: https://pwr-solaar.github.io/Solaar/
There are projects for supporting the Xbox controllers too: https://github.com/medusalix/xone
As I said in another post
I’m very well aware that all of these problems can be fixed. But you need to put extra work in. There is no benefit for doing that.
But you need to put extra work in
Uh, no? You just install one application to configure your Logitech peripherals. Just like you would install an application on Windows. It takes like 15 seconds to google “logitech keyboard linux” and the second result you get is Solaar.
For Xbox controllers, it’s just one package that you need to install.
This is one of the few rare cases, where the Linux kernel doesn’t include a driver, and you manually need to install it. It’s the exact opposite on Windows. You basically need to install all your drivers manually, since Linux is mostly a monolithic kernel, and Windows is not. I can name enough cases where you need to install extra drivers on Windows, in order to get basic functionality. For example if you want to connect your Android phone, every manufacturer has their own drivers that you need to manually install on Windows. On Linux, these are built in.There is no benefit for doing that.
There are many benefits. Linux is free, doesn’t force you to create an account, doesn’t show you ads, doesn’t collect and sell your personal data, doesn’t try to force you to use a specific browser, has lower resource usage and better performance, especially on older devices, doesn’t have stupid and arbitrary hardware requirements, has better security, most of the applications are free and open source, you can customize your OS to suit your needs and there’s a great community. And most importantly, you have full control over your computer.
The benefit is you don’t have to use windows. Obviously, it’s not a trade off that’s going to satisfy everybody.
The duality of Linux users… I faced many problems but managed to work around them, one by one.
I just got a new laptop and was genuinely gonna try windows 11 and wsl for my coding needs. But in first boot, it demands internet to do updates. Ok, I connect to coffee shop wifi. Nope, won’t do it because it can’t handle the click through screen to accept wifi ToS. Fine. I take it home, where my Internet is great but has a glitch where it drops out for a few seconds now and then. Turns out that windows will literally cancel updating and demand I reconnect and restart for the kind of drop that I barely notice day to day. So I gave up, plugged in my ArchLinux thumb drive, and
mkfs.ext4before rsyncing my entire old computer to itYou use Arch Linux but can’t fix your wifi?
Actual autism I know
You sound like a Linux veteran.
I mean you probably want to have internet when you install any OS…
Haha… NO
Right. Having your OS up to date is not important, I suppose?
There is a difference between asking nicely and shoving down the throat.
I didn’t say otherwise…
Microsoft tried nicely during the XP era. We all know how it ended. The average user shall never be trusted with security.
the fact the install media can’t provide a working desktop by itself is pathetic.
The fact that it’s a requirement - and moreover automatically creates and integrates with MS cloud services - is what people don’t like.
Nobody is arguing that it’s a bad idea to let your chosen distro installer automatically pull the most up-to-date packages.
That’s great but none of that was mentioned in the comment I replied to.
I’m down but if it can’t handle a 5s dc then rip
They gave it access to the internet twice.
LIBREBOOT! LIBREBOOT! LIBREBOOT!
What do Microsoft have to gain from not listening on to the users?
I switched all of my Windows systems over to Windows 10 LTSC a few months ago, and it’s been a game-changer. I still get security updates, but no advertisements, bloat, or new “features.” I believe it’s supported until 2032.
After that, I’ll probably switch my remaining systems over to Linux, but until then, it’s not half bad.
I ran ltsc for a few months… Then I found it didn’t have simple stuff like the camera app? I forget why, but there was one all I really needed that I didn’t have, so after fighting trying to install it, I just want back to Windows pro. I might give windows enterprise a try though.
VLC, Open Capture Device would probably have worked. Or OBS if you wanted to get fancy.
I’m thinking about doing it too but with w11
I haven’t tried W11 LTSC. Even if you cut out the bloat, I just can’t stand the interface. Hopefully 12 is better, but I’m not hopeful.
Hopefully 12 is better
Hahaha. Oh man, I needed that laugh. Thanks. 🥲 This is a one way journey until all computers look and behave like smartphones. Hopefully I’ll have dementia by then so I won’t remember how amazing computers used to be.
Hopefully I’ll have dementia by then so I won’t remember how amazing computers used to be.
I swear this is the only explanation for people claiming Windows gets a good version every other version.
The interface is fine. The inconsistency of it is awful. Makes me wonder how the most popular os in the world, can that be bad and useless.
it’s pre-installed on everything by default. that’s the only reason it’s “”“popular”“”
You got it the wrong way round. It’s awful because it is the most popular os. If you look back at Windows XP or 7, they were clean, consistent and a pleasure to use. Everybody had XP, then 7 and by then it was too late and everybody was used to it and Microsoft can do whatever they want now and people will just take it because they’ve always used Windows. No need to put in effort.
“popular” as it “it came on every computer every Luddite got from Best Buy and contracted to every business”
Honestly, it Linux was as easy as Windows and played every steam game without any effort, windows would drown a slow death.
People that lived through getting kicked off XP are like “w11 interface is fine. I’ve been through worse”
Acceptance is the last stage of grief. You are ready to move on.
It’s like when people in abusive relationships suddenly realize that their partner doesn’t actually care about them, and everyone around them is like “Yeah, no shit. Fucking leave their ass.”
