High-tech surveillance video and audio comms from a MN State Patrol helicopter, reveals planning and tactics behind the largest mass arrest in recent Minnesota history.
I know I said I was out, but I wanted to say thanks for a thoughtful reply. I’m always happy to have discourse without vitriol so I’ll add some more thoughts here.
I think you are being absurd, because our democracy is in critical danger, and you’re worried about a road.
For the record, I’m not at all downplaying the corruption and illegality of the Trump administration. I wholeheartedly support the current criminal court cases going against him and, while I believe all defendants are innocent until proven guilty (doing otherwise would be to turn our backs on one of the tenants of a functioning democracy), I do hope to see him convicted of his crimes once proven in a court of law. I could write a lot more here, but I think we’re basically on the same page with this so I’ll spare the full sermon on the dangers of MAGAism.
In the case of this road thing, my concern stems from people, at night, flooding onto a highway. There’s a good chance multiple people are hit, and killed at those speeds, possibly involving multiple vehicles, maybe a semi-truck. Even the drivers of the cars could be hit by other cars and hurt themselves. Short of that, you have the psychological toll to live with of having accidentally killed someone. It’s really just a bad idea all around on top of not being an effective protest method. For those reasons, I do believe the police acted appropriately to show up, and arrest the people doing it.
On the topic of police, in general this is a difficult topic for me that I honestly don’t really feel qualified to speak on generally so I typically stay silent on it. That’s not because of an unwillingness to help but because I don’t believe in speaking on topics that I don’t feel qualified to speak on. You’re right that I’ve never had bad experiences with police to the point that I felt their actions were unethical or illegal. In fact, in my life I’ve personally known a handful of police officers and each one of them I found to be ethical people who wanted to live peaceful lives and do the right thing with their job. But I also recognize there are many instances of problematic (to put it lightly) policing and have seen many instances in the news demonstrating that. I also recognize that, in general, humans in positions of power tend to abuse that power. That’s why civilian oversight and accountability of police is paramount. That’s something that’s clearly lacking currently given the strength of police unions, as one example. Overall, I think it’s a system that needs reform, but I wouldn’t go so far as to throw out the whole system because what would it be replaced with? You can’t have a society without some way to enforce laws (like enforcing illegal and dangerous protests), but you also can’t have a police state. That’s what I mean by there’s a difficult nuance here, but I also recognize that I don’t know what that is and why I’m hesitant to even type this up right now. That’s also not to diminish your experiences, I’m sure they’re just as valid as mine, likely moreso given your experiences and my comparative lack thereof. I’d be happy to learn more about them if you want to share.
Calling people “fuckers”, “chodes”, etc. is part of my vernacular, as with many others of my generation; you shouldn’t take it so hard. The point isn’t to degrade you, but to snap your attention.
I’ve been on the internet for long enough to have been called much worse names many times before, I have a pretty thick skin at this point (see the other person on this thread telling me how I’m a fucktard and no one likes me, again, as if that’s going to accomplish anything). My point here was though that text based communication carries a negativity bias with it. In that we tend to assume bad intent and starting with language like that only serves to immediately make folks retreat to their corners where no constructive dialog can be made. Ultimately your goal is to sway more people to your side, right? The most effective way to do that is to engage with them rather than use what is traditionally considered offensive language in an attempt to get their attention.
In short, my general view is that the best, and really only, way to preserve democracy is to support its institutions. Those same institutions that told Trump “no” when he tried to falsely claim he won the 2020 election. I know they’re not perfect, but tearing down those institutions instead of reforming and strengthening them is not the way to preserve a democracy in times of trouble. Call me naive and idealistic, maybe I am, but at the end of the day governments are based on the faith of the people that live under them. I have to maintain my faith in America’s democratic institutions because without that faith they crumble and die which is exactly what neither of us want to see happen.
We’re totally on the same page. I get carried away because I’m so angry about the current state of affairs, and how helpless I feel to change them. Thank you for being so thoughtful and rational. We need more people like you.
I know I said I was out, but I wanted to say thanks for a thoughtful reply. I’m always happy to have discourse without vitriol so I’ll add some more thoughts here.
For the record, I’m not at all downplaying the corruption and illegality of the Trump administration. I wholeheartedly support the current criminal court cases going against him and, while I believe all defendants are innocent until proven guilty (doing otherwise would be to turn our backs on one of the tenants of a functioning democracy), I do hope to see him convicted of his crimes once proven in a court of law. I could write a lot more here, but I think we’re basically on the same page with this so I’ll spare the full sermon on the dangers of MAGAism.
In the case of this road thing, my concern stems from people, at night, flooding onto a highway. There’s a good chance multiple people are hit, and killed at those speeds, possibly involving multiple vehicles, maybe a semi-truck. Even the drivers of the cars could be hit by other cars and hurt themselves. Short of that, you have the psychological toll to live with of having accidentally killed someone. It’s really just a bad idea all around on top of not being an effective protest method. For those reasons, I do believe the police acted appropriately to show up, and arrest the people doing it.
On the topic of police, in general this is a difficult topic for me that I honestly don’t really feel qualified to speak on generally so I typically stay silent on it. That’s not because of an unwillingness to help but because I don’t believe in speaking on topics that I don’t feel qualified to speak on. You’re right that I’ve never had bad experiences with police to the point that I felt their actions were unethical or illegal. In fact, in my life I’ve personally known a handful of police officers and each one of them I found to be ethical people who wanted to live peaceful lives and do the right thing with their job. But I also recognize there are many instances of problematic (to put it lightly) policing and have seen many instances in the news demonstrating that. I also recognize that, in general, humans in positions of power tend to abuse that power. That’s why civilian oversight and accountability of police is paramount. That’s something that’s clearly lacking currently given the strength of police unions, as one example. Overall, I think it’s a system that needs reform, but I wouldn’t go so far as to throw out the whole system because what would it be replaced with? You can’t have a society without some way to enforce laws (like enforcing illegal and dangerous protests), but you also can’t have a police state. That’s what I mean by there’s a difficult nuance here, but I also recognize that I don’t know what that is and why I’m hesitant to even type this up right now. That’s also not to diminish your experiences, I’m sure they’re just as valid as mine, likely moreso given your experiences and my comparative lack thereof. I’d be happy to learn more about them if you want to share.
I’ve been on the internet for long enough to have been called much worse names many times before, I have a pretty thick skin at this point (see the other person on this thread telling me how I’m a fucktard and no one likes me, again, as if that’s going to accomplish anything). My point here was though that text based communication carries a negativity bias with it. In that we tend to assume bad intent and starting with language like that only serves to immediately make folks retreat to their corners where no constructive dialog can be made. Ultimately your goal is to sway more people to your side, right? The most effective way to do that is to engage with them rather than use what is traditionally considered offensive language in an attempt to get their attention.
In short, my general view is that the best, and really only, way to preserve democracy is to support its institutions. Those same institutions that told Trump “no” when he tried to falsely claim he won the 2020 election. I know they’re not perfect, but tearing down those institutions instead of reforming and strengthening them is not the way to preserve a democracy in times of trouble. Call me naive and idealistic, maybe I am, but at the end of the day governments are based on the faith of the people that live under them. I have to maintain my faith in America’s democratic institutions because without that faith they crumble and die which is exactly what neither of us want to see happen.
I really appreciate your response—thanks!
We’re totally on the same page. I get carried away because I’m so angry about the current state of affairs, and how helpless I feel to change them. Thank you for being so thoughtful and rational. We need more people like you.