Tell it to the kulak victims of nkvd. They were all peasants / worker class but still got murdered because they didn’t want to get sovkhozes and kolhozes. And no famine wasn’t because of kulaks, only because Soviets kept selling best grain to the west. Much more than they really could - all they central office data were falsified and nobody dared to admit that they couldn’t sell that much grain to the west
Do you know that you need grain for damn reseeding? Soviets and their central planning by uneducated central pianists ( the educated ones got murdered during great purges ) caused they kept selling too much grain and nobody dared to question. One bad year of crops exactly caused the famine. Soviets sold all the existing grain because of the contracts with the west and after that they have started to search “traitors” in the worker / peasants class. Add it to the fact that lots of grain come from the Ukraine and many central pianists were against Ukrainians and we have the recipe for the great hunger. Central planists send NKVD to recollect even this what left for reseeding for the next year. In the next decades planists got educated ( after the Stalin terror ) but still the central planning of Soviets caused USSR to be lagging to the west. These are the facts and I could give you charts with the soviet export. Simply central planists has incorrect data because of the fear, bad planning and many other factors
These are the facts and I could give you charts with the soviet export.
Why say I could and not do it? If you have sources, give them. You haven’t linked any source whatsoever in this entire thread to back up your wild claims.
weirdly enough, despite their uneducated central “planists” who all got murdered; they somehow with sticks, stones and “uneducated workers” that were all brought back to life via Leninist necromancy managed to make a famine not happen again. Weird. It’s almost like the exploiters of that land were causing famines by their own mismanagement and that central planning actually contributed to the fact that the average soviet citizen ate better than the average American one.
Also, can I get some sources on the Soviets just selling all their grain? You know, when I set up a communist society; the first thing I’d do is satisfy all my trade agreements with the west instead of serving the people! That makes sense!
Oh and sources on the KNVD just brutally marauding across the land and murdering? I can only find deportations.
No ones yet to explain to me why we should apologise when the Kulaks literally went on record that they ordered grain be burned to increase the price, during a famine, directly killing hundreds of thousands of people.
Meanwhile in the real world. Russia went from a backwards agrarian society where people travelled by horse and carriage to being the first in space in the span of 40 years. Russia showed incredible growth after the revolution that surpassed the rest of the world:
USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:
Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 period while having better nutrition:
First of all “kulaks” were not working peasants who lived self-sufficiently off farming their land and raising their livestock, you are thinking of “serednyaks”, the class below kulaks in the 4-tier rural class system of Imperial Russia. Kulaks were rural loan sharks and land owners who did not work but rather lived off extortionate interest rates from loans to “serednyaks” and from exploiting the labour of “bednyaks” (literally “the empoverished”, or landless peasants) and, mainly, the seasonal labour of “batraks” who were the class below “the empoverished” - many of them homeless, traveling from village to village and working quite literally for a bit of food and a place to sleep in the barn.
If you intend to keep talking publically about kulaks, do look into those classes, look up who batraks were and what kind of life they lead before the revolution, the mortality, the diseases, how many they were compared to the number of kulaks. Find out what dekulakisation brought not only for kulaks, but also for that huge number of serednyaks, bednyaks, and batraks they exploited. Find out what dekulakisation did to overall child mortality, child hight, life expectancy, and so on.
Second, kulaks were not murdered, they were eliminated as an economic class by removing the relataionship of exploitation. Their lands were taken and given to the people, and the ones who resisted were deported with their families.
Tell it to the kulak victims of nkvd. They were all peasants / worker class but still got murdered because they didn’t want to get sovkhozes and kolhozes. And no famine wasn’t because of kulaks, only because Soviets kept selling best grain to the west. Much more than they really could - all they central office data were falsified and nobody dared to admit that they couldn’t sell that much grain to the west
Kulaks got exactly what they deserved, and anybody who defends the kulaks can get fucked.
Do you know that you need grain for damn reseeding? Soviets and their central planning by uneducated central pianists ( the educated ones got murdered during great purges ) caused they kept selling too much grain and nobody dared to question. One bad year of crops exactly caused the famine. Soviets sold all the existing grain because of the contracts with the west and after that they have started to search “traitors” in the worker / peasants class. Add it to the fact that lots of grain come from the Ukraine and many central pianists were against Ukrainians and we have the recipe for the great hunger. Central planists send NKVD to recollect even this what left for reseeding for the next year. In the next decades planists got educated ( after the Stalin terror ) but still the central planning of Soviets caused USSR to be lagging to the west. These are the facts and I could give you charts with the soviet export. Simply central planists has incorrect data because of the fear, bad planning and many other factors
Why say I could and not do it? If you have sources, give them. You haven’t linked any source whatsoever in this entire thread to back up your wild claims.
weirdly enough, despite their uneducated central “planists” who all got murdered; they somehow with sticks, stones and “uneducated workers” that were all brought back to life via Leninist necromancy managed to make a famine not happen again. Weird. It’s almost like the exploiters of that land were causing famines by their own mismanagement and that central planning actually contributed to the fact that the average soviet citizen ate better than the average American one.
Also, can I get some sources on the Soviets just selling all their grain? You know, when I set up a communist society; the first thing I’d do is satisfy all my trade agreements with the west instead of serving the people! That makes sense!
Oh and sources on the KNVD just brutally marauding across the land and murdering? I can only find deportations.
Start showing your sources, lib.
source: U.S Intelligence who did a study on Soviet citizens - https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP84B00274R000300150009-5.pdf
No ones yet to explain to me why we should apologise when the Kulaks literally went on record that they ordered grain be burned to increase the price, during a famine, directly killing hundreds of thousands of people.
Agreed.
Meanwhile in the real world. Russia went from a backwards agrarian society where people travelled by horse and carriage to being the first in space in the span of 40 years. Russia showed incredible growth after the revolution that surpassed the rest of the world:
USSR doubled life expectancy in just 20 years. A newborn child in 1926-27 had a life expectancy of 44.4 years, up from 32.3 years thirty years before. In 1958-59 the life expectancy for newborns went up to 68.6 years. the Semashko system of the USSR increased lifespan by 50% in 20 years. By the 1960’s, lifespans in the USSR were comparable to those in the USA:
Quality of nutrition improved after the Soviet revolution, and the last time USSR had a famine was in 1940s. CIA data suggests they ate just as much as Americans after WW2 period while having better nutrition:
Careful comrade, libs don’t read sources
I don’t think you really have to qualify that, they just don’t read period. Their whole world view is based directly on Marvel movies.
Это белошиз порвался, or do you just have a “Russian” friend, my dear loan shark lover?
You are completely misinformed.
First of all “kulaks” were not working peasants who lived self-sufficiently off farming their land and raising their livestock, you are thinking of “serednyaks”, the class below kulaks in the 4-tier rural class system of Imperial Russia. Kulaks were rural loan sharks and land owners who did not work but rather lived off extortionate interest rates from loans to “serednyaks” and from exploiting the labour of “bednyaks” (literally “the empoverished”, or landless peasants) and, mainly, the seasonal labour of “batraks” who were the class below “the empoverished” - many of them homeless, traveling from village to village and working quite literally for a bit of food and a place to sleep in the barn.
If you intend to keep talking publically about kulaks, do look into those classes, look up who batraks were and what kind of life they lead before the revolution, the mortality, the diseases, how many they were compared to the number of kulaks. Find out what dekulakisation brought not only for kulaks, but also for that huge number of serednyaks, bednyaks, and batraks they exploited. Find out what dekulakisation did to overall child mortality, child hight, life expectancy, and so on.
Second, kulaks were not murdered, they were eliminated as an economic class by removing the relataionship of exploitation. Their lands were taken and given to the people, and the ones who resisted were deported with their families.