GitHub - Haidra-Org/lemmy-safety: A script that goes through a lemmy pict-rs object storage and tries to prevent illegal or unethical content
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A script that goes through a lemmy pict-rs object storage and tries to prevent illegal or unethical content - GitHub - Haidra-Org/lemmy-safety: A script that goes through a lemmy pict-rs object sto...

I noticed a bit of panic around here lately and as I have had to continuously fight against pedos for the past year, I have developed tools to help me detect and prevent this content.

As luck would have it, we recently published one of our anti-csam checker tool as a python library that anyone can use. So I thought I could use this to help lemmy admins feel a bit more safe.

The tool can either go through all your images via your object storage and delete all CSAM, or it canrun continuously and scan and delete all new images as well. Suggested option is to run it using --all once, and then run it as a daemon and leave it running.

Better options would be to be able to retrieve exact images uploaded via lemmy/pict-rs api but we’re not there quite yet.

Let me know if you have any issue or improvements.

EDIT: Just to clarify, you should run this on your desktop PC with a GPU, not on your lemmy server!

  • snowe@programming.devEnglish
    1062·
    1 year ago

    Hey @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com, just so you know, this tool is most likely very illegal to use in the USA. Something that your users should be aware of. I don’t really have the energy to go into it now, but I’ll post what I told my users in the programming.dev discord:

    that is almost definitely against the law in the USA. From what I’ve read, you have to follow very specific procedures to report CSAM as well as retain the evidence (yes, you actually have to keep the pictures), until the NCMEC tells you you should destroy the data. I’ve begun the process to sign up programming.dev (yes you actually have to register with the government as an ICS/ESP) and receive a login for reports.

    If you operate a website, and knowingly destroy the evidence without reporting it, you can be jailed. It’s quite strange, and it’s quite a burden on websites. Funnily enough, if you completely ignore your website, so much so that you don’t know that you’re hosting CSAM then you are completely protected and have no obligation to report (in the USA at least)

    Also, that script is likely to get you even more into trouble because you are knowingly transmitting CSAM to ‘other systems’, like dbzer0’s aihorde cluster. that’s pretty dang bad…

    here are some sources:

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
      584·
      1 year ago

      Note that the script I posted is not transmitting the images to the AI Horde.

      Also keep in mind this tool is fully automated and catches a lot of false positives (due to the nature of the scan, it couldn’t be otherwise). So one could argue it’s a generic filtering operation, not an explicit knowledge of CSAM hosting. But IANAL of course.

      This is unlike cloudflare or other services which compare with known CSAM.

      EDIT: That is to mean, if you use this tool to forward these images to the govt, they are going to come after you for spamming them with garbage

      • snowe@programming.devEnglish
        291·
        1 year ago

        Cloudflare still has false positives, the NCMEC does not care if they get false positives. If you read some of those links I provided it wouldn’t be considered a generic filtering operation, from how I’m reading it at least. I wouldn’t take the chance, especially not with running the software on your own hardware in your own house, split from the server.

        I think you’re not in the US? So it’s probably different for your jurisdiction. Just want to make it clear that in the US, from what i’ve read up on, this would be considered against the law. You are running software to filter for CSAM, so you are obligated to report it. Up to 1 year jail time for not doing so.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
          182·
          1 year ago

          One can easily hook this script to forward to whoever is needed, but I think they might be a bit annoyed after you send them a couple hundred thousand false positives without any csam.

          • snowe@programming.devEnglish
            235·
            1 year ago

            The problem is you aren’t warning people that deleting CSAM without following your applicable laws can potentially get people that use your tool thrown in jail. You went ahead and built the tool without detailing any of the applicable laws around it. Cloudflare explicitly calls out that in their documentation because it’s very important. I really like the stuff you put out, but this is not the way to do it. I know lots of people on Lemmy hate CF and any sort of large company, but running this stuff yourself without understanding the law is sure to get someone in trouble.

            I don’t even know why you think I was recommending for your system to forward the reports to the authorities. I didn’t sleep very much last night, so I must have glazed over it, but I see nowhere where I said that.

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPEnglish
              154·
              1 year ago

              Honestly, I thinking you’re grossly overstating the legal danger a random small lemmy sysadmin is going to get into for running an automated tool like this.

              In any case, you’ve made your point, people can now make their own decisions on whether it’s better to pretend nothing is wrong on their instance, or if they want at least this sort of blanket cleanup. Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do.

              I don’t even know why you think I was recommending for your system to forward the reports to the authorities

              You may not have meant it, but you strongly implied something of the sort. But since this is not what you’re suggesting I’m curious to hear what your optimal approach to those problem would be here.

              • snowe@programming.devEnglish
                5·
                1 year ago

                You may not have meant it, but you strongly implied something of the sort. But since this is not what you’re suggesting I’m curious to hear what your optimal approach to those problem would be here.

                Optimal approach is to use the existing systems that are used by massive corporations to solve this problem already. I know everyone on lemmy hates that, but this isn’t something to mess around with. The reason this is optimal is because NCMEC provides the hashes only to these companies. You’re not going to be able to get the hashes (this is a good thing… imagine some child abuser getting access to these hashes and then using them to evade detection). So if you can’t get these hashes (and you shouldn’t want them either) then you should use a service that has them. It is by far the best way to filter and has been proven time and time again to be successful.

                The easiest is CloudFlare’s, and yes, you will have to use them as your DNS which I also understand a vast majority of admins hate. But there are other options as well

                • PhotoDNA
                • Safer
                • Facebook PDQ

                Because access to the original hash databases is considered sensitive, NCMEC will not provide these to smaller platforms. Neither will Microsoft provide the source code of its PhotoDNA algorithm except to its most trusted partners, because if the algorithm became widely known, it is thought that this might enable abusers to bypass it.

                In that article, it actually points out that a solution called Safer that uses machine learning and image recognition has very flawed results and is incredibly biased. So if these massive platforms can’t get this kind of image recognition right then it’s probably best to not waste money and time on it. The article even points out that for smaller platforms it’s not worth it.

                We also know in general terms that machine learning algorithms for image recognition tend to be both flawed overall, and biased against minorities specifically. In October 2020, it was reported that Facebook’s nudity-detection AI reported a picture of onions for takedown. It may be that for largest platforms, AI algorithms can assist human moderators to triage likely-infringing images. But they should never be relied upon without human review, and for smaller platforms they are likely to be more trouble than they are worth

    • hoodlem@hoodlem.meEnglish
      18·
      1 year ago

      Ugh, what a mess. Thought about this for a while today and three thoughts started circulating in my head:

      1. Hire an actual lawyer and get firm legal advice on this issue. I think this would fall to the admins, not the devs. Maybe an admin who wanted could volunteer to contact a lawyer? We could do a gofundme for one-time consultation legal fees.

      2. Stop using pictrs completely and instead use links to a third party such as Imgur or whatever. They’re in this business and I’m sure already have dealt with it and have a solution. Yes it sucks that Imgur (or whatever third party) could delete our legitimate images at any time, but IMHO it’s worth it to avoid this headache. At any rate it offloads the liability from an admin. Of course, IANAL and this is a question we would want to ask a lawyer about.

      3. Needing a GPU increases the expenses for an admin significantly. It will start to not be worth it for quite a few to keep their instance running.

      Thanks for bringing up this point. This is obviously a nuanced issue that is going to need a well-thought-out solution.

      • snowe@programming.devEnglish
        91·
        1 year ago

        the ridiculous part of it is, as I understand it, if you completely ignore your website and essentially never know that you’re hosting CSAM then you cannot be held liable for it. But then, someone’s probably literally gonna come hunt you down to tell you in person (FBI) lol. So probably best to not ignore it.