Hot off the back of its recent leadership rejig, Mozilla has announced users of Firefox will soon be subject to a ‘Terms of Use’ policy — a first for the iconic open source web browser.
This official Terms of Use will, Mozilla argues, offer users ‘more transparency’ over their ‘rights and permissions’ as they use Firefox to browse the information superhighway — as well well as Mozilla’s “rights” to help them do it, as this excerpt makes clear:
You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet.
When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox.
Also about to go into effect is an updated privacy notice (aka privacy policy). This adds a crop of cushy caveats to cover the company’s planned AI chatbot integrations, cloud-based service features, and more ads and sponsored content on Firefox New Tab page.
Get ready for ads as well
They removed this:
{ "@type": "Question", "name": "Does Firefox sell your personal data?", "acceptedAnswer": { "@type": "Answer", "text": "Nope. Never have, never will. And we protect you from many of the advertisers who do. Firefox products are designed to protect your privacy. That’s a promise. " } },Turns out when you gotta choose between going defunct and selling ad space, selling ad space wins.
Also turns out that drying up donations for privacy protecting browsers means there is less demand for it, and less money to fund it.
The majority cost of Firefox is engineering salaries.
Eventually something has to give, and this is it.
Also turns out that drying up donations for privacy protecting browsers means there is less demand for it
Or, hear me out, that former donors don’t trust them anymore!
But also that a lot of people don’t want to donate, basically when they could only donate an immeasurably small amount, to a company whose CEO gets an unimaginably huge pay, that could be used for significantly boosting development.
Personally that’s a big reason I rather want to support smaller projects, or even that of size like Bitwarden.Cough cough, that’s true the biggest cost is salary 17,097,933. But 10 millions are paid to C-Suite and 4mil to contractors who do the job. https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2024/b200-mozilla-foundation-form-990-public-disclosure-ty23.pdf Just look into the books.
PAID ONLY BY A RELATED FOR-PROFIT
Conveniently missed note above ☝️
The remainder of the executive team is paid what appears to be a fairly reasonable salary for the industry, low even.
The biggest cost ($6mill) is paid by the for profit Mozilla corporation.
Browser development is crazy hard, and expensive, work. Mozilla has honestly done a TON with the resources at hand. Google over here spending hundreds of millions for Chrome
It just sucks that they are seeing financial pressures that drive them into the profit corner.
Yeah but the line between them and google is not there anymore in that case
The only acceptable privacy policy for a browser is “we won’t fucking look into anything, take anything, nor send anything anywhere you didn’t actually wish to send explicitly”.
Firefox have an extension system. If mozilla wants to bloat it, they should do it via extension, so that they’re not bloating the actually useful part. As it is, all they’re doing is forcing more work on people to manage forks to remove all the shit every time they push a release.
/usr/lib/firefox-esr/browser/features
has- formautofill@mozilla.org.xpi
- pictureinpicture@mozilla.org.xpi
- screenshots@mozilla.org.xpi
- webcompat-reporter@mozilla.org.xpi
- webcompat@mozilla.org.xpi
hey, why is this significant? I can guess what features these are linked to, but is there any significance to the email address-like formats?
They are the demanded features-as-extension, shipped by default. They do that since they got rid of XUL i think?
About the @, no clue.
Is this because some middle manager at Mozilla has to pretend to be productive?
No it’s because Firefox isn’t profitable and to try to survive in its current form they have to do something.
It might be more productive to die and live on as an open source effort. I personally doubt there’s enough open source engagement to keep Firefox current and competitive but it’s of course an alternative Mozilla in its current form is unable to consider.
Mozilla is a nonprofit (or it at least it should be, technically it’s a for profit corporation that’s wholly owned by a nonprofit foundation, shady asf).
They shouldn’t be trying to make a profit, they should make enough money to pay their programmers to maintain the browser.
They should not be dumping money into more executive hires and AI bullshit like they are doing.
Being a “non-profit” doesn’t mean the company “shouldn’t make profit” … It means that the owners/investors don’t earn anything extra based on profit. The organization itself still needs to be financially sustainable.
As shady as Mozilla is, they’re competing against a functional monopoly, so the playing field is hardly fair.
As shady as Mozilla is, they’re competing against a functional monopoly
yeah this is a part we need to recognize. right now there are essentially three browsers. Chrome, Safari, and Firefox. Every other browser is some derivative of one of these- mostly Chromium.
Google can change some small detail about how they render HTML or a small part of their JS engine and that has global effects all over the internet. Without a Firefox to compete, they will implement policies to hurt the consumer. People think just because Chromium is open source that this mitigates the risk.
Google’s V8 javascript engine does not only power all Chrome and chrome-derivatives, it also powers nodeJS and therefore vast swathes of server-side javascript as well.
it’s actually difficult to understate how much raw power Google has in determining what you see on the internet and how you see it
we desperately need Firefox. I really hope that an open source alternative could be viable but it’s been decades and we haven’t had a real browser pop into existence. will the death of Firefox mean something else comes out? Or will the death of Firefox be the last nail in the coffin for a free internet?
Most non-profits are not financially sustainable and rely on donations and grants to operate. If the service they provided could be financially sustainable, a for-profit would popup and operate in that space.
But I agree that non-profits can and should find fee-for-service opportunities and generate revenue to reduce their reliance on gifts.
Fair enough. Although, for those reading at home, I’ll reiterate the distinction between nonprofit and charity; all charities are nonprofits, not all nonprofits are charities. Research universities are an example.
On that note, I guess I’m enough of an academic to not consider grants a “gift” … It’s not consumerism-driven revenue, but it’s hard to call it a gift when you’re on the hook to produce something (research papers & prototypes) that you then turn around and use to sell for more revenue (in the form of grants).
They are losing money and their business model is not breaking even. I want getting to make a governance point (though I agree with yours), merely saying they are desperate.
they have to dip something for sure. THEY HAVE TO REDUCE THE CEO PAY BY MEASLY 20% AND FUND DEVELOPMENT FROM THAT!!!
or by even more.
lol. Are you for real? You think the Firefox development team can be funded by 20% of the CEO’s salary?!
certainly not in itself. but it certainly would help significantly as additional budget. and as I said, the more the better
Guys Mullvad browser and Librewolf exist.
LibreWolf is annoying in that it doesn’t work on my Mac with VPN split tunneling, a seemingly known issue they haven’t fixed.
Zen Browser too
Do they support ubo?
they’re firefox forks and ubo comes automatically installed with them.
I have librewolf, don’t use it much. Is it functionally the same as FF? In terms of plug-in and website compatibility.
Most consumer sites are optimized for chrome and even safari, firefox & Edge (Obviously) face issues with scripts and plug-ins.
It’s basically the same, but the devil is in the detail. DRM disabled from the get go, which is a show stopper for some sites (say, netflix). Some sites will bork themselve on the strange user-agent. Some advanced privacy features are quite hard to disable willingly, which may or may not be a good thing if you actually have to get things done on sites that breaks.
One would argue that sites that breaks when privacy features are enforced are not worth it, but you don’t always have a choice in that regard.
Most consumer sites are optimized for chrome and even safari, firefox & Edge (Obviously) face issues with scripts and plug-ins.
This is why it’s dangerous that Chrome has such a large amount of market share. Instead of using standard features, sites are using Chrome-specific features and even relying on Chrome bugs that don’t exist in other browsers. It’s exactly the same reason Internet Explorer was bad.
I’ve been willingly enabling data collection features for Mozilla but I guess that time is revolute, they don’t feel trustworthy anymore.
Same here. Just turned off all data collection checkboxes. Fuck Mozilla!
and then, “uh, we are removing the URL bar in the next version because our statistics say nobody uses it!!”
and then, “uh, we are removing the URL bar in the next version because our statistics say nobody uses it!!”
Good thing LibreWolf and other forks exist, including hard forks like the Goanna browsers.
I moved on to Waterfox, is this a good move?
ladybird can’t come fast enough
Ladybird has a platinum sponsorship on their homepage from Shopify so not a good look already.
Well it’s a sponsor, it’s not their product.
What’s that saying about sitting at a table with a Nazi?
Building a browser from scratch is going to cost well over a million dollars in development costs. I don’t think they’d be able to achieve it without sponsors.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t seek funding, but maybe not from companies that hosted and sold literally Nazi tshirts.
For realsies
So now what the hell do we have to use to not be spied upon?
Well I suppose LibreWolf (or some other de-branded Firefox) will become more mainstream. Similar to what chromium is to chrome 🤷
That’s not a real equivalence.
Chromium is the basis for Google Chrome, while Librewolf is nothing more than a leech to Firefox. It’s just Firefox, rebranded.
Rebranded, pre-cleaned of all the forced stuff from mozilla, with the built-in integration of more privacy-enhancing features.
So, not “just firefox, rebranded” at all.
They aren’t developing or maintaining the core browser though, they depend on Firefox still being looked after.
If we are comparing it to Chrome, it is more like Ungoogled-Chromium.
In the good/bad old days a web page was just text and images but now a browser is a platform for running software. Each website can do useful computing for the user but the software author is in control and always tempted to make it run for them at the expense of the user.
Crazy idea, maybe we shouldn’t use web browsers.
probably anti-detection browser that ban evaders are using on reddit. its a little more complicated to get to that point though.
Soon other web engine will coming, first LadyBird browser and two is Servo Browser. But they’re still along way to go
soon! they can come any year now!
Am I missing something on Servo Browser? Because when I went to check it out and seems more like next-gen browser engine that looks to be an improvement on Firefox’s Gecko. If so then we will need to wait for a browser team to adopt it.
Servo is also building a web browser UI.
But isn’t Servo funded by Mozilla
After Mozilla laid off all Servo developers in 2020, governance of the project was transferred to Linux Foundation Europe. Development work officially continues at the same GitHub repository with the project itself entirely volunteer driven.
I am still waiting desperately for a servo based browser, mozilla kicking it out was one of the reasons I lost all hope in Mozilla a while back.
Librewolf is still a good alternative
Overhyped AI is going to fail, and it can’t happen soon enough. The Mozilla leadership really needs to pay attention to that reality.
Mozilla leadership needs to be removed
It just became bigger: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/mozilla-leadership-growth-planning-updates/
There’s never enough money to maintain the browser but there’s always enough to dump more into executives pockets.
100%. I can’t decide whether I think the organization being dissolved completely is a good idea or not, but I’m at least open to it.
It’s not going to disappear, it has its place, but its not going to be shoehorned into every single thing.
Sorry, I realized I’m using my personal jargon in public again. When I said “AI,” I meant this overhyped put-it-in-your-mouse garbage. When I’m talking about the actually useful stuff, I usually call it “ML.”
Of course you have no reason to know that or care. My apologies.
i know, but companies still think AI is a replacement of : software engineers, programmers down the line, and outsourcing all thier CS. instead its just rehashing other AI content into its own. they have a place for answering simple questions, or pulling up complex programs
i think MS? admitted AI isnt generating useful profit for them, yea its hype like crypto is.
What the fuck?
deleted by creator
Well, we had a good run lads, enshitification is here.
Any recommendations for open source alternatives that are convenient and also have an android app supporting ublock origin.
Waterfox
Not really open source, but want to mention it anyways. Take a look at the Norwegian browser Vivaldi. I made the switch recently and am really happy with it. Their privacy policy seems good, and they have a clear no AI stance. Their android browser is by far the best android browser from a UX standpoint in my opinion.
I might be biased as a Norwegian 😉
Yeah, I’ll +1 Vivaldi - great tool with (mostly) useful features
Not sure how it will do with the Chrome / Chromium v3 addon API thingie - just not looked into that at all. Hope it’s not relevant
Mange tak! 😁
librewolf on pc and ironfox on android. both forks of firefox.
+1 for LibreWolf. Dialy driver and not looking back.
Ice Raven on Android.
This is my pair as well
I looked into how to install IronFox and fell into a huge rabbit hole about F-droid vs grapheneos etc I had no idea there was all this contention. https://gitlab.com/ironfox-oss/IronFox/-/issues/7
Why IronFox over fennec?
More privacy related defaults. Essentially the about:config is more or less filled out for you on Ironfox.
Danke danke
Librewolf, Servo looks promising but is very far off and just an engine I think? Idk I keep looking at it and want it.
Servo isn’t a full browser, it’s a tech testbed for Mozilla to test out their various rewritten Rust components. I wish they would have promoted it to full browser status, but I think intention was always to take pieces of Servo as they were completed and drop them into Firefox.
Damn, maybe I can’t read but I didnt find that info on their page.
Hmm seems like it’s only partially true these days. Looking at their webpage they have a screenshot of their Wikipedia entry (why they didn’t just link to it I have no idea) that provides some more up to date info. It was a testbed and they mention a project Quantum where the tech was added into Firefox’s Gecko engine. In 2020 Mozilla laid off all their Servo devs and handed the project over to Linux Foundation Europe. It seems like since then they’ve reenvisioned the project as an embeddable rendering engine similar to WebKit or V8.
Edit: Further details available on the Wikipedia page. In particular this last paragraph seems highly relevant:
In January 2023, the Servo project announced that new external funding had enabled a team of developers to reactivate the project.[23] The initial roadmap focused on selecting one of the two existing layout engines for further development, followed by working towards basic CSS2 conformance.[24] In February 2024, at FOSDEM 2024, the Servo Project team outlined their plans for a ‘reboot’ of Servo.[25]
It seems like the ‘reboot’ is focused on turning it into a competitor for WebKit/V8. Looking at the projects roadmap it seems there are currently no plans in the works to make it a proper standalone browser.
Oh, well thank you for the info. I guess its a good thing Librewolf already exists.
This comment under the article gave me a chuckle.
sometimes bound to give, if firefox isnt taking in money from having no ads, to having ads. they are going to need tons of ads, and the ability to sell your browser info for money, much like chrome is doing. surprised its taken this long to finally say “private donations isnt enough”
Is Waterfox a good alternative?
Waterfox’s creator, while not being HOSTILE to privacy, has said in the past that making the most private browser in the world is not the goal of the project. The goal is a more customizable browser for power users
