This isn’t me being a luddite. Machinery has massive potential benefit to giving humans more free time to pursue things that fulfill them and the internet is an amazing tool for disseminating knowledge and increasing communication, whether it’s about art, science, or philosophy.
But I realized today, this person is just kneading different textures of dough and this person is just whittling. How many bakers and carvers loved what they did because it stimulated their senses in ways that humans have evolved to be fulfilled by?
I have another theory (that probably aligns with disability theory in some way or other) that people with autism aren’t actually more common now, it’s just that they’re sensitive to bright artificial light and loud noises and weird smells and foreign textures the world we live in is FULL of those. And what’s more, we have ever increasing attentional expectations in the midst of all that!
You used to just have a weird uncle Joe who doesn’t talk a whole lot but man he can knead dough aaaalll day or thresh wheat or maybe he just makes cute little wooden toy horses all weekend and we sell them at the market on Monday. And it’s weird how aunt sally hums like that but damn her lace embroidery is WILD. (we can discuss antiquated gender expectations at a different time).
This isn’t saying savantism/special abilities should be expected of neurodivergent people either, just that a looot of people probably flew entirely under the radar that way for a huge portion of human history and we’re only noticing them now because we’re progressively putting people in more and more noxious environments where even people who could’ve coped in those environments can no longer cope in this one.
And now we have a whole industry of creating stimulation for people who never would have needed it if we just hadn’t created an entire world without naturally occurring stimulation that they’re “expected” to live in after humans spent hundreds of thousands of years learning to make tools out of wood and stone and cook over open fires, and crush and mix their own grain to make breads.
And because all these things occur on a spectrum, we’re seeing more people everyday who would have had no need for the stim industry now suddenly require it because we’re progressively pushing more and more people who could previously have claimed one of those coveted “normal” labels into being “different” as we steadily push them to accept less and less stimulation in their daily lives and steadily push them to stretch their attention span more and more beyond what it ever evolved to do.
TLDR; the ASMR/Stimming industry is only necessary because we created a world where those stimuli no longer occur naturally that people who need them have to live in. The concept of a “disability” is very intimately intertwined with expectations as to what environment any given person “should” be able to thrive in.
On the one hand I agree, but on the other I feel there is danger in attempting to pathologize every single little thing. Don’t forget that the vast majority (probably 70%+) of these viewers and purchasers are children or toddlers, and it is completely normal to be entranced by such stimuli at that age.
It’s the literally the “jangling keys to distract the baby” trope
It’s not pathologizing, quite the opposite, OP is saying that the industry is necessary because a normal human behavior exists that the constant drive for commodity production interrupts
Yes, and I am saying that that industry is mostly being fueled by children who prefer such content due to their age.
I’ve been thinking along these lines for a while. I’m not diagnosed but it’s heavily suspected I’m on the spectrum and I always noticed that while my tactile hypersensitivity leads me to hate things touching me, it brings me visceral joy to just do something fun with touch. Things like sculpting, carving or anything that involves lots of texture and . There had been some mentally “different” people on the rural side of the family in the past, and they seemed to be able to live a quite normal life tending to their plots, despite no access to medication. Now one has to get like 3 degrees to even get a job to afford mental health services, despite the best mental health service being not having to work like a
dogurban human every day for the rest of one’s life. A lot of neurodivergent and mentally ill issues stem not from the symptoms and traits but by how capitalist society is unwilling to do anything to accommodate those people because it’s less profitable.ASMR is just artificial crickets, bats and birds. That second video is fun because I cut my vegetables in that specific way and it brings be immense joy for a practice that has existed for as long as knives. Meanwhile we still allow those fucking car honks of hell.
I think your argument here speaks to and can be connected with a broader phenomenon that we can recognize even before capitalist relations became dominant. The relationship of religion as the opium of the masses that masks and justifies certain exploitative relations in society while at the same time providing benefit to the oppressed as spiritual respite and allowing them to feel good in spite of their material conditions.
Of course, the problem persists and is even worsened in capitalism along with massive alienation. Today in the West, the place of religion was largely taken by consumerism of various kinds and I think that your analysis of the stim industry fits into that nicely. As you also say, we shouldn’t attack people engaging in this type of consumerism nor should we focus on individual decisions, but should understand the material conditions that create the need and seek to build a better society where such practices cease to be necessary.
I feel like you’re right. Thanks for giving me something to think about
I like it. You’ve stumbled upon a concept that I think closely parallels that of a particularly notorious critic of modern society, Ted Kaczynski, though his is more generalized and expansive. I am going to quote from Tim Luke’s paper “Re-reading the Unabomber Manifesto.”
To compensate for lost power, the system not only provides for but also endorses “surrogate activities” that industrial peoples “set up for themselves merely in order to have some goal to work toward . . . for the sake of the ‘fulfill- ment’ that they get from pursuing the goal” (1J39). Because “only minimal effort is necessary to satisfy one’s physical needs,” (1(39) most of what preoccupies anyone is a surrogate: art, science, athletics, literature as well as acquiring money, partici- pation in corporatism, engaging in social activism, and pursuing celebrity. These surrogates are are “less satisfying than the pursuit of real goals . . . one indication of this is the fact that, in many or most cases, people who are deeply involved in surrogate activities are never satisfied, never at rest” fl|41). The Unabomber states that “the effort needed to satisfy biological needs does not occur AUTONO- MOUSLY, but by functioning as parts of an immense social machine” fl|41). When meeting real needs takes only trivial effort, and satisfying surrogate desires is given such latitude, the stage is set for individual marginalization on many interrelated levels. Thus a very fine line divides “Sensible Sam the Smart Con- sumer” from “Crazy Kaczynski the Alleged Founder of the Freedom Club.”
There’s a lot TK wrote that’s pretty… welll… crazy, but I find the concept of surrogates to be persuasive. Luke in this paper points out that TK’s writing on this often parallels that of Marcuse, whose writing I quite like but I’ve never done a real deep dive, and who is less terroristy and a bit more palatable.
On a way less controversial note, you might enjoy the book “Mad in America,” and its sequel “Anatomy of an Epidemic.” They’re both a parade of horrors, so be warned, but Whitaker gives a comprehensive and unapologetically critical history of what it means to be mad in the US, how we’ve treated them, and, in the second book, how we’ve come to view mental health as a biological deviation from normal that can and should be cured with with a pill. Whitaker also runs the blog madinamerica.org. From their mission statement:
Mad in America’s mission is to serve as a catalyst for rethinking psychiatric care in the United States (and abroad). We believe that the current drug-based paradigm of care has failed our society, and that scientific research, as well as the lived experience of those who have been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder, calls for profound change.
Oh, and finally, you should be a luddite. Luddites were great ;)
I find it fascinating how the Unabomber and, to an extent, anyone who advocates weird, “every society not built on killing and eating is bad” worldviews, they can see this concept of surrogate goals but immediately jump to invalidating them. What makes the desire to become the best rock thrower in the world any more valid than the desire to survive? More people certainly want the latter, but in the absence of a god or higher power to give us some sort of direction, these surrogate goals are as equally valid as any human endeavor ever ventured upon.
What I suggest seems superficially preposterous, I mean, anyone can tell that not starving is more important than becoming the best rock thrower. But that’s the thing- we only think that because the majority of people do not want to starve. Both the desire to throw rocks and the desire to eat are rooted in our biology, one is just more popular and therefore well supported (and, to be clear, should be supported, I think not starving is more important than rock throwing too)
In fact, most of this is pretty much just nonsense. Most “surrogate” desires never reach the level of toxicity or self harm that exists today in corporate culture or even religion.
Also art is not a fake desire ffs
I would go as far as suggesting that these supposedly fake desires only exist or become truly fake when people are forced to submit to them. When someone is pursuing a “surrogate” or supposedly fake desire without being forced to by conditions or the current mode of production, they’re usually pretty content with it, or experience it as an enjoyable vibe rather than a painful goal, therefore something that can be truly satisfied, like eating or sleep. See art communities for this. There are examples of toxic behavior and attitudes in art communities but they always seem to coincide with a desire to commodify one’s art or as a side effect or the idea of productivity.
Haha yes, I totally agree. TK definitely takes the concept of surrogates to a ridiculous place, but then again, that’s kind of his thing. He starts with a nugget of insight and turns it into something unhinged and scary.
I still think there’s a little something to the concept, though. Marcuse’s parallel ideas of subordinating autonomy to the industrial society seem a lot less “every society not built on killing and eating is bad," as you delightfully put it lol. I’m not really that knowledgeable on his writing, but I’ve added it to my list because Luke’s paper made me curious about it.
I looked up Marcuse and on a really primitive reading of his Wikipedia article, while I disagree with his negative views of the USSR, his views seem to be way more in line with reality than Ted’s
Persuasive.
Do you think there’s a line between a ‘surrogate’ activity and a real activity. Like a paint-by-numbers set that the consumer never finishes and creating something from scratch? Or would the pre-packaged version still be worthwhile?
I don’t think there’s any meaningful distinction that’s reliable. The most fucked up goals do seem to be mostly external, though. Toxic things like success aren’t things people chase because they’ve developed an irrational love of being successful, but because they’re physically punished and socially ostracized for not being that.
In other words, the most harmful desires aren’t desires anyone actually has, but impossible goals they think they should want but don’t even pretend to want in reality.
People want to do art. Nobody actually wants to be a successful businessman, though. They want all the stuff that comes from being a successful businessman but being a successful businessman is actually universally perceived as quite shitty and unenjoyable in reality.
Satisfying and Relaxing Slime Videos #2102
What the hell…
This is top quality post never considered it from that perspective before, thanks
It reminds me a lot of a discussion I had with my former psychatrist (I’m on the spectrum that’s why I had to see one), and he told me something along those lines when I asked him why does that even exist. It was something like:
[…] Autism surely used to have some usefulness for our ancestor. Easily analysing patterns, or being hyper-sensitive to stimulis may have been useful for dealing with predators, hunting, or making better tools […]
Feels like it come close to what you’re thinking op
… I just realized how badly I want to be a baker. lol…And a cook. I just want to feed the shit out of people. Not like a chef at some restaurant, cooking meals while cussing and scrambling to make 10 different meals in 30 minutes kind of BS. I want to just relax and make a fuck load of food all day long and feed ppl as they come by. I want knead dough and make breads and soup and casseroles and meatloaf and big pots of baked beans and loaded baked potatoes and everything else. I want to be a babushka. lol
Not everyone who engages in sensory-seeking is neurodivergent. Stimtoys and sensory videos can appeal to everyone. Many humans like to have things in their mouths, and gum is the semi-modern incarnation of this. Autistic sensory requirements are a whole other thing, and frankly you do not see stimtoy companies successfully marketing silicone chew toys. The most popular toys are tactile because they appeal to the largest demographic rather than an autistic niche.
As for the videos you linked… ASMR and other sensory videos take advantage of animal biology, and capitalism simply cracked the code with technology and marketing. You can actually turn on a video of dancing fruit on your TV and hypnotize your dog with it. It would probably have the same effect on medieval peasants as it does to the modern proletariat.
Well said.
Well at least you got those crackpot thoughts out of your head I guess.
If being compassionate about our comrades means I’m a crackpot, then so be it. I’m with OP on this one.
There’s definitely some crackpot here though, much as it comes from a place of compassion. Ownership of the means of production isn’t stopping people from whittling or kneeding dough… I love blaming everything on capitalism more than most, but there are several levels more evidence needed for this supposition
Ownership of the means of production isn’t stopping people from whittling or kneeding dough…
Anecdotal yes, but people around me not having time to do that stuff is a big deterrent. If you have to work and study with all of your time and energy, you won’t get much to chop veggies or bake bread and will have to order takeout or something of the sort.
Sure, some deprivation of time like that is possible under communism, but due to surplus labour you are naturally working more than one should under capitalism for that same return. Considering how most needs could be met with way less work in “developed” societies by abolishing property (fuck rent), people would be much freer to go chop soap, carve small sculptures or generally be messy with tactile and auditory senses without having to resort to a whole industry of other people doing that for you (those also doing that solely to pay their bills). ASMR and other such things are not problems of capitalism, but lacking solutions to solve capitalism’s problems with capitalist tools.
Also it’s important to point out that neurodiversity like Autism and ADHD aren’t always considered “mental illnesses” and aren’t inherently bad. Those would be more of the sort of Major Depressive Disorder which should definitely be treated as a problem.
Ownership of the means of production isn’t stopping people from whittling or kneeding dough
Agree, but we need to actually try it to know for sure. :)
[…] but there are several levels more evidence needed for this supposition
Multiple levels indeed. I may not be the best at this, but let’s try and unroll what those levels are.
I would say it’s a combination of feeling alienated from your work, as well as the commodification of your attention that leads to the stimming/ASMR industries being a thing. Not to say they are bad, but in a better world everyone would feel like they belonged and there would be no need for artificial shows of attention. On the flip side, if you already don’t feel like you belong, constant advertisements reminding you you are valuable but only if you buy this thing may gently push you further down the spiral.
Another level may be a lack of community. As proof of this you can see how capitalism promotes individualism, either through “personal finance literacy” or through “personal meditation apps” which help you manage your anxiety on your own. The feeling of success being tied into one’s achievements instead of the health of the community, or nature. You may think this is not relevant but remember that some people are more influenced by their environment than others. They pick up the message “do it by yourself” and just run with it, because that’s what we as a capitalistic society expect of everyone.
These are problems of capitalism, imho, though I’d be happy to know what others think.
I think there’s a serious risk of attributing all mental illness, or even in this case any deviation from “typicality”, to capitalism. It’s made tricky by the fact that capitalism unquestionably exacerbates problems related to mental illness, so there’s a strong undercurrent of fact to it… But eliminating capitalism won’t end mental illness.
Further, I think it’s a mistake to attribute toxic individualism to capitalism alone. Japan, for example, is deeply capitalist, and people there have their own set of mental illnesses that are rooted in being forced to abandon individualism in a rigidly collectivist capitalist society. Toxic individualism is a “western” thing, and it ties into western capitalism like the rest of the culture, but it’s not a specific feature of all capitalism. It is a mistake to boil every single problem down to capitalism alone, even when capitalism is without a doubt making these problems worse. It’s an oversimplification that will lead to possibly fatal issues when trying to implement an alternative.
Capitalism doesn’t cause differences, it makes behavior that isn’t strictly in line with the norm much more dangerous to the person having it.
I didn’t blame capitalism for every mental illness. The world will continue to have mentally ill people (whatever we mean by mentally ill) long after capitalism falls. I’m just saying capitalism makes it worse. Sometimes actively exploits them (see casinos, the lottery and micro transactions in games). And it’s ok for it to be criticized for that. Because it’s inherent to the system to chase capital, even if human life gets in the way. I still remember the time when Goldman Sachs asked “Is curing patients a sustainable business model?”. In capitalism, no it isn’t.
Japan is less individualistic than other countries, so it may have less of this kind of problem (regarding OPs post), but at the same time, more of some other kinds of problems, all related to capitalism as well. There is a reason why they have the word 過労死 (death by overwork) and we don’t (we have a sentence).
Which is a shame, I love Japan’s culture so much.
