What’s the closest thing we have to a perfect private messanger?
In my mind the perfect private messanger is both completely secure, and also completely anonymous.
All the mainstream messengers can pretty much ensure the contents of the message will not be revealed…but that is not good enough. I want to be able to deploy and establish a completely anonymous AND private channel of communication on a dime without having to jump through extreme operational security hoops.
Does it really exist?
Matrix gets a lot of flak from people for their constant protocol changes, de-facto centralization around matrix.org and Element etc… but I’m very happy with Matrix as an open, federated, encrypted and private messenger and I hope it gets more adoption.
Matrix is convenient, not perfect security in any way.
jami
How does Jami handle offline messages? From understanding its p2p, so both ppl have to be online right?
from my knowladge it stores the message on the senders device until the other person js online then sends it
No. If you don’t jump through those hoops you give up the completeness of your anonymity, privacy or security.
If you’re uninterested in simply recognizing that fact, consider that the “push button, get privacy” level development is being worked on in reverse by every intelligence agency, data broker, state and municipality with astronomical funding levels.
You need to define extreme operational security hoops.
For me, meeting a human in person and scanning a qr code or relying on an out of band scheme to do the same is a huge hoop.
I would still like to understand why Jami is never mentioned in these posts. I’m not aware of any technical or security objections, and the less I hear about Jami, the more concerned I become about using it.
You can’t have big groups in Jami, it’s limited to a small number of participants (can’t remember how many).
Yeah. SimpleX has a similar problem, because it’s basically creating a bunch of 1:1 connections between everyone to preserve anonymity - IIRC (I freely admit I could be misremembering this). As I understood, it’s a decent limit, though - more than the 7-12 friend/family group you’d reasonably trust in a chat group.
I did not consider this a blocker - who’s using encrypted chat for large groups? Large group chats are fundamentally insecure; is the use case about anonymity, not encryption?
AFAIK simplex is the closest we have to perfect privacy.
+1 for simplex. I don’t use tor, but if you want the best of the best, use it
Signal is far from perfect but its good enough for me.
Love signal but it’s NOT anonymous
Edit: signal. Not simpkex
Session, Signal, Matrix, and more.
Your own xmpp server
How is that anonymous?
Because no one will ever send you a message
~/s it was a joke. Hold you horses xmpp fans. Im not attacking anyone here~
Can’t believe nobody brought up i2p.
Messages sent through i2p in theory would be secure and anonymous. With an envelope anology, no way to tell if an envelope stops at a particular house or gets forwarded on, and also they can only see bags of envelopes and not a specific envelope.
Are there any cool i2p sites or apps? Since it doesn’t have exit nodes I never found a reason to use it.
I2p has a BitTorrent system. They’d have to block i2p completely to stop it. It will probably be the only way to torrent once VPN bans/liability get brought up.
Can you hook me up? I don’t know how to find those torrents/indexers/trackers
Briar, SimpleX, I2Pchat on desktop, maybe LXMF/Reticulum/Sideband over I2P if you want to get techy.
Lot of people mentioning SimpleX but I can’t imagine trying to make someone go online at the same time as me to start sending each other messages without being annoyed. It also relies on funding from the British state IIRC.
On the other hand XMPP is a W3C internet standard, the server is super lightweight, plenty of tools and bridges work with it. Movim uses it, which is like an encrypted Mastodon where you can selectively make a post public but otherwise gates everything behind a login. Also you can send messages on the main phone network with the paid Cheogram service, but I realize that an unencrypted SMS relay is not a priority for everyone. I think it’s the bee’s knees.
Simplex works async. You might be thinking of briar
I don’t understand how every person responding to me has missed that I said “start chatting” not “continue chatting” but I will be idiot-proofing my lemmy comments from here on out, it’s exhausting
Such a high horse for such a tiny person.
- On simplex you can “start chatting” asynchronously
- You didn’t say “start chatting”. You said “start sending messages” which is something you do with people every day
- “Start chatting” and “continue chatting” do not mean what you imply the mean. There is no distinction between them as “the absolute first time” and “all the others”. I can start talking again with a friend I haven’t talked to in months. I can also start talking about a previous topi (" me and my girlfriend started talking once again about having children")
So… You know… Maybe get off the horse? It’s not that everyone around you is an idiot is that you failed to communicate… Or you are an idiot
Lot of people mentioning SimpleX but I can’t imagine trying to make someone go online at the same time as me to start sending each other messages without being annoyed.
Do you just keep your phone off or do you not use your IM clients there? Literally never had this issue with simplex, it deliveres notifications just fine to my phone.
Though I did manually have to give it notification perms on android. Annoying but very easy fix.
Look everyone I know smokes weed it’s really bad. More like a turn your brain on situation. You know how bad that is for your sleep architecture™ over a period of 4-5 years? It’s a wonder they can even remember what I said, but telling them to do something at a certain time? I’d be uncloseted as an authoritarian. The only way I even get people to use these apps is Appeal to Paranoia.
I rip through an ounce of dabs a month and can run a homelab and write software that way, I have no problem holding a 9-5. Your friends are just irresponsible, or more likely, just don’t give a fuck like 99% of people.
Me and my friends are all stoners, we use simplex fine. Not sure what your deal is.
Either way why do they need to do something at a certain time?
YOU CAN MESSAGE OFFLINE USERS ON SIMPLEX THEY WILL GET THE MESSAGE LATER, IF THEYRE ONLINE NOW THEY WILL GET A NOTIFICATION. IF THIS ISNT WORKING YOUR NOTIFICATION SETTINGS ARE FUCKED.
I’m sorry you and your friends can’t figure out how to use literally the first open source privacy a respecting messenger that I actually think I could hand to my grandmother…
i breathe more hash oil than air
Fucking act like it then and calm down, I was just saying to the other guy, the issue is having to be online in order to connect contacts. That is a serious issue outside of people you’re already tight with, think abt how flaky people are even in important situations.
Besides, what makes XMPP perfect to me is that the ecosystem is mature, it will be around forever, it has a service I can use to access Canadian and US cell networks while abroad. It has an encrypted facebook style social media site in rapid development that any XMPP acct can login to so they don’t need to make a new account, that by design NEVER HAS THOSE ASSHOLES ON IT
Hopefully Webxdc on XMPP takes off more it’s currently only on Cheogram Android app and Delta Chat droid/pc. You can make collaborative editors and games n stuff if I guess you want encrypted tuxcart (someday)
Does xmpp have Post Quantum Encryption? Only anonymous if used with TOR or VPNs.
You don’t have to be online at the same time. To receive or send messages. Getting funding from governments would not disqualify a project. The founder of SimpleX is a right wing guy hating the labor government in the UK.
I mean to set up the chat in the first place you gotta both be online. I think OMEMO is good idc if its quantum safe ill check later. Good tonmention ty, but if the government wants me bad enough to use quantum shit they’re just gonna go thru my device itself. Yeah I know abt post processing it all after stashing it. The american govt is gonna collapse first anyways #whocare #theytouchedthemoney #theytouchedthemoneyanditgotquiet
I think you don’t want to know the real answer. It sounds like you want a phone app, but what you really have to do is flush your phone down the toilet and use a totally different approach. Also, there is absolutely no way to avoid difficult opsec. The communications technology is irrelevant since the greatest vulnerability in any security system is the people who use it. Do you think the private messenger software will free sessions with your therapist from spying? Guess again.
As the saying used to go, you’re seeking a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem.
Technically, you should keep your phone and run false, normie activities on it. Give it to someone else to use and move about while you’re actually operational so it remains actively pinging the world while you’re away from it. All while also using the real approach, but not within range of your phone, or any windows or apple hardware linked to you either.
SimpleX?
Tox would also be fantastic, but they need to improve their encryption and get it audited. Also, some nicer UIs in the various clients would be nice.
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