I’ve been body shopping for the past year and a half after taking a hiatus from photography due to having children enter my life. Currently, my 2-3 time a week shooter is a Sony A7III. I rented an X-H2s for a week from lens rentals to try to give the two cameras a shakedown. I’m treating typing this out is my own form of rubber duck debugging, but I’m obviously happy to hear thoughts and feedback as well 🙂

What subjects do I take photographs of?

Currently? A pair of young hyperactive kids and their related activities. My kids are spastic/high energy, and taking candid photos of them while they do their thing is a lot of fun.

Before kids:

After kids:

(don’t worry, this isn’t one of my kids but it is someone I went to go see with them. I still get to take panning pictures, but instead of cars it’s now kids on bikes)

Size and ergonomics

  • All the fingers on my totally normal (if-not-somewhat-small) right hand fit on X-H2s’s body. I have a Really Right Stuff plate on my A7III just to give my pinky a home. Without it my pinky falls under the camera
  • The X-H2s view finder turns on more reliably for me. I wear glasses and am left eye dominant. I find that if I wan the A7III’s viewfinder to turn on reliably, my glasses need to be touching it, but I didn’t experience that with the X-H2s. Maybe this is due to the difference in the “face sensor” location (on top of the view finder on the A7III, under it on the X-H2s), maybe it’s due to the viewfinder protruding more on the X-H2s than the A7III, maybe it’s a not-customizable configuration thing. Who knows
  • On the A7III, it’s not possible for me to see all the information inside the finder (eg ISO, shutter speed, etc) without moving my head around while wearing glasses. The X-H2s was a little better in this regard (the O-M1 is better again). My vision isn’t horrible, so I can make do without glasses and the A7III is fine in these circumstances. That said, I am used to wearing glasses whenever I’m awake and tend to take photographs as a secondary activity to the main activity, so I often forget (or don’t want to) leave my glasses behind. If I was going on a dedicated photography expedition (say, just me and the camera for the purpose of taking photographs) this probably wouldn’t be an issue.

With the base plate on the A7III, the grip’s vertical size basically matches that of the X-H2S:

This isn’t a great photo, but the X-H2s’s viewfinder protrudes further than the A7III’s by about a quarter inch or ~6mm. This makes for less nose smashing when you’re using the finder, not that this is horrible on the A7III.

point: X-H2s, but with the RRS plate the experience isn’t that horrible on the A7III.* I would not be a fan of the A7III without a plate on it. Thankfully, there are plenty of options.

Scenes/Lighting/low light and ISO performance

Before kids, most of my photographs were taken outdoors on sunny days. After kids, I’ve been taking a lot more photos indoors in places like museums that tend to be dimly lit, in addition to around dusk outdoors. Thankfully, I discovered fast primes. It’s really amazing what a fast (f/1.4) lens enables you to do in terms of keeping ISO down - especially if your subjects are moving fairly slowly.

A7III, Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG HSM @ ISO 160, 1/40, f/1.4

I did not take a great A/B comparison of the same scene at the same ISO on both bodies, but thankfully we can use DP review’s studio scene comparison tool for that. The X-H2s appears to be about a stop behind the A7III in terms of noise.

That said, I have a few 10,000 ISO photos from my time with the X-H2s that look pretty good to my eyes.

X-H2s, 23mm (35mm FF EQ), ISO 10000, 1/500, f/1.4. No fancy post processing done - this is a SOOTC JPEG.

I do not hesitate to use ISO 12,800 on the A7III.

A7III, 35mm, ISO 12800, 1/25, f/5.6. Dark table processing, but again nothing fancy (eg no AI noise reduction)

point: A7III. There’s no replacement for displacement surface area. But again, with a fast lens I’ve not needed to go above say ISO 5000 very often.

Lens options

  • Fuji’s benefit from cheaper and potentially smaller glass. The 23mm (35mm FF equivalent) f/1.4 LM WR is $900. For that price you can get a third party (Sigma) 35mm f/1.4 for the A7III, or you can spring for the $1,400 Sony FE 35mm f/1.4 GM. This is true for most any other lens pair. Here are a few examples: $2,500 Sony FE 100-400 vs $800 Fuji 70-300, $1,300 Sony FE 50mm f/1.4 GM vs $899 Fuji 33mm f/1.4 LM WR, etc
  • Sony’s benefit from excellent third party glass integration, in addition to having a wide and deep catalog of third party glass available. I own a Sigma 35mm f/1.4 DG DN and it was really nice to be able to update its firmware through the camera body, just like I would on a Sony lens

Here’s a size comparison of the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 vs Fuji’s 23mm. Note that the Fuji has a lens filter on it.

Here’s the pxlmag view of Sony’s 35mm f/1.4 lens, which is smaller than the Sigma, vs the Fuji 23.

Note that this all gets a bit interesting if you’re willing to compare slower glass on the Sony vs faster glass on the Fuji, given a f/4 lens on a FF body will still have shallower depth of field than a f/2.8 lens on a APS-C body and the DR/noise advantages a FF sensor will offer.

This pattern continues as you move up in focal length.

point: I’m going to call this largely a wash, with a slight edge for Sony thanks to all the third party glass. Selection = Sony. Size for a given f-number and focal length = Fuji. Size for an equivalent f-number and focal length = Sony. Price = Fuji, but there’s some excellent third part glass available for e-mount that rivals or beats Fuji’s pricing (see: Sigma’s excellent 24-70 f/2.8 for $1,100 vs Fuji’s 16-55 f/2.8 for $1,200)

Livability/Likeability

  • The X-H2s does a lot of things that culminate in the camera seeming to have more of a soul. A lot of these things revolve around haptics and responsiveness
  • The X-H2s turns on quickly and is ready to take a photo nearly immediately. If the A7III has sat for a ~1 day it takes… a while to turn on. If it’s only been a few hours, it can still take a few seconds. Flick the camera off and back on? It’s not slow, but it’s not fast either. This isn’t a huge deal, but it can be annoying. The X-H2s turns on nearly immediately. That said, the X-H2s will often miss the first shot taken if you turn it on and try to take a photo right away
  • The X-H2s takes a photo very predictably when you poke the shutter button. This is also true if you’re manually mashing away at the shutter button in AF-C. I found the A7III’s shutter button, using the factory settings (eg half press to focus, press more to take the photo), to be very vague/mushy/unpredictable. Interestingly, if configure the A7III for back button focusing, it suddenly becomes very responsive with BBF. I have no idea why this would be the case. This is independent of focus priority setting on the A7III
  • This might sound silly, but the X-H2s’s mechanical shutter is way more satisfying. It’s quiet/well damped and unobtrusive. The A7III has an authoritative thawunk shutter sound. It’s not obnoxious per-say, but it is very much there. Before anyone says this is due to FF shutters being physically larger than APS-C shutters, the Z6II has a very satisfying mechanical. Newer Sony bodies are less obtrusive, but Sony tends to be louder than Nikon FF by a wide gap. Between the X-H2s’s faster readout (eg ability to use e-shutter more often) and quieter mechanical shutter (to deal with the occasional scenario where the e-shutter is struggling), the X-H2s is significantly less likely to intrude on the moment. Even without the faster electronic shutter, this would still be the case (eg with the X-H2)
  • The X-H2s UI is more luddite proof. For example, it will you which wheel controls what in “m” mode and which direction to turn for a given outcome. IMO this is somewhat unnecessary once you’re familiar with the camera, but it is still somewhat nice - especially if you’re not super familiar with the camera or don’t use it very often
  • The EVF and screen on the X-H2s are way nicer than the A7III. It’s true that the A7III is an older body, but if you want a nicer EVF on a FF Sony you’re looking at something like the A7RV, A1, or A9III which are all priced significantly higher than the X-H2s. The A7III is totally serviceable, but who doesn’t like a sharper/brighter/more color accurate display?

Point: X-H2s. It’s really hard to dislike this camera

Geo location (via companion applications)

I personally really like having GPS coordinates embedded in my photos’ EXIF data. I’ve been spoiled by both my D5300 (internal GPS!!) and smartphones over the years. It seems like basically all camera bodies from the past 4-5 years or so rely on a smart phone to provide location information.

Without actively doing anything, I found that my phone provided location information faster to the A7III than on the X-H2s. Sony’s app also doesn’t ask for precise location by default and its persistent notification lets you easily know when it will (or won’t) work (due to Android relegating it to a background task, an update, etc). I didn’t spend enough time with the X-H2s get to know the app that intimately, but the Sony app does just work - at least on my Pixel 3a.

That said, I really like that the X-H2s retains its prior location setting for a configurable amount of time. For example, if you’re walking around for a few hours, turning the camera off and on as you go, you don’t have to wait for bluetooth to connect again before you get geo data in your EXIF data. This is not the case on the A7III - it will not retain its prior location information. I could probably adjust my habits to accommodate the camera better (eg leave the camera on all the time when I’ll be using it sporadically for a few hours), but I don’t know if this will fully resolve my concern.

Point: X-H2s for the memory function

Autofocus/AF-C/Face and eye detection/AF intuitiveness

  • It’s hard to understate how reliable the AF-C is on the A7III. If there’s a green square on my intended subject, I can trust that green square to be in focus basically all the time. If I miss the shot it’s because of something like my shutter speed being too low. That doesn’t mean that the A7III will will always focus where I want it to, but it will always tell me where it is currently focused so I can intervene if necessary (eg change focus size/area, etc). I’ve missed very few, if any, shots on the A7III due to false positives. Missed shots tend to either be caused by too slow of a shutter or my subject moving at a very high speed
  • The X-H2s finds faces and eyes further away than the A7III, or at least does a better job taking credit for them. For further away subjects, the A7III will usually prioritize faces/eyes/heads/humans, but won’t always give you the visual indicator of “I know this is a face/eye”. It doesn’t have a way of saying, “I know this is a head/human” due to not having subject detection
  • I’ve taken a number of photos on the X-H2s that it thinks should have been in focus, but were actually out of focus, despite being set to focus priority. As a percentage, this is not a huge number, but it’s not in the approaching zero territory of the A7III
  • In general, I did find [the X-H2s’s AF-C performance to be pretty good). Certainly better than the Z6II if you value faces and eyes
  • IMO, face/eye detection makes a lot more sense on the A7III. If you’re in focus area wide on the A7III, you just kind of point the camera at that face/eye you want to prioritize, press your chosen focus button, and you’re off. If you’re in the zone focus area, the A7IIII will only prioritize faces/eyes in that zone. If the X-H2s finds a face literally anywhere in the frame, it will focus on that face - regardless of what your focus box is telling it. I do sometimes wish the zones were on the A7III were little smaller (a-la Nikon’s mirrorless offerings) or could be sized dynamically (a-la Olympus and Fuji). I find the flexible spot to be a little too small
  • Being able to dynamically size the focus area while moving it around with the joystick on the X-H2s is a nice feature that’s not present on the A7III

Sony A7III AF-C at work, even though it didn’t indicate that it detected a face it still focused on the head

X-H2s saying, “I totally have focus” without actually having focus

Related to the above: I have no idea what website I used for that and would love to find it again.

That’s not to say that the X-H2s fails to focus all the time or can’t handle moving things

Point: A7III

Colors

  • I’ll edit a RAW if I have to, and do shoot RAW+JPEG, but I’m lazy and time is limited. Therefore, good enough SOOTC JPEGs = a win for me
  • I find the A7III’s SOOTC JPEGs pretty color accurate, if not a little boring
  • People prefer Fuji’s JPEGs. I’m honestly a bit on the fence here. I find them somewhat too stylized for my liking and after shooting the A7III for a year and a half I can pick out Nikon vs Sony SOOTC JPEGs on my digital picture frame pretty reliably. Fuji’s SOOTC colors seem a little over the top to me, but that’s not to say that I can’t see their appeal

I think it’s worth saying that the raws seem to be basically the same, so if you’re a raw shooter this is a moot point. Below are two minimally processed raw files. I’ll leave it to you to figure out which is from which camera, although I did inadvertently blow ISO in one of them while ensuring depth of field was the same. Thankfully, you can’t really tell :) Maybe that just speaks to the strengths of modern sensors.

And here’s a pair of SOOTC JPEGs with zero care/attempt made to make their settings comparable. If anything this shows that SOOTC JPEGs are very variable. I will say that both cameras offer a good base for SOOTC JPEG tweaing/tuning. The A7III below is a bit over the top, but I generally found the inverse to be true when shooting more ‘normal’ profiles.

A7III

X-H2s

point: tie, especially depending on your preference

#So… which do I prefer?

Well, once my rental was over I did return it. I’ve been somewhat hunting for a good quality, and well priced, used X-H2s for a few months now to try a “long term rental”, but I’m very on the fence about it. It’s really hard to beat the way Sony AF works, both in terms of hit rate and control (“I want you to find faces and eyes, but only in this area of the frame. Ignore all other faces outside this area please”). That said, I do hesitate to use the A7III in some situations because of its loud shutter. Maybe I should look at the A9…

    • IMALlama@lemmy.worldOP
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      4 months ago

      Thanks! As I said in the intro, typing this out really helped me organize my thoughts for why I keep sticking with the Sony body even though I don’t know that I feel a strong attachment to the body itself. If it turned on a bit faster and consistently, the EVF were a bit more glasses friendly, and the shutter were quieter I think I would be completely happy. An A9 will take care of at least one of those things, so it seems like a good next body to try.

      And agree. I didn’t spend a ton of time with film, but my D40’s max level was 1600. It has HI1 at 3200, but that could get pretty noisy. My D5300 did go to 12800, but it also got pretty noisy fast.

      It really depends on the shot, but ISO 12800 is completely usable on a modern sensor.

  • KammicRelief@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Cool writeup! I myself haven’t recovered from young kids yet, so I’m still rocking a nikon d800, which is great for going out shooting nature/architecture by myself (which never happens), but less so for candid family stuff. Anyway it’s nice to read your experiences.

    • IMALlama@lemmy.worldOP
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      4 months ago

      Happy you found it interesting/entertaining!

      Your D800 remains a very capable body. The three advances since them are quieter mechanical shutters (not all brands embrace them equally), pretty solid electronic shutters (so you can pass on the loud mechanical shutter when needed), and face/eye/subject recognition (makes getting the shot a lot easier). There have been some advances on the ISO noise front too, but these have been slow and steady IMO.

      If you frequent dimly lit places and your kids are constantly on the move, it’s hard to beat a MLIC with a fast prime. I do occasionally miss my speedlight, diffusers, and umbrella for the effects it could create but I get by in dim light pretty well without them.

      Coming from a D40, D5300, and getting back into kids with a J5 it’s kind of funny to find myself standing by a A7III, but it’s a great value these days and delivers more consistently eye/face in focus photos than a Z6II.

      • KammicRelief@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        So sorry for the reply delay! But, that is nice to know that the more recent upgrades boil down to quieter/mechanical shutters etc. I guess I am not too worried!

        But it sure would be nice to have something midway between a) the bulky D800 with very heavy sigma 12-24 or nikon 24-70, and b) my phone. :-D

        Thanks again.

        • IMALlama@lemmy.worldOP
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          3 months ago

          All good!

          There are options!

          M43 cameras can be a lot more compact but once you start really sweating equivalence it does get a bit messy. Modern FF mirrorless cameras, and their lenses, will also offer size/weight savings over a DSLR. Here’s a very quick size comparison. Note that there is a newer version of that Sony 24-70 that reduces weight to 659 grams (vs the 1,070 of your Nikon DSLR lens). I find that my Pixel 3a is pretty good for bright light with moving subjects, but as soon as my subjects start moving and lighting drops my dedicated cameras make a world of difference.

          • KammicRelief@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Ooh that size tool is cool! Dang, my D800 is a beast.

            And yeah I agree, phones are no match for the real thing. Even in good light, especially if you’re going to do any raw/post work on it.

            • IMALlama@lemmy.worldOP
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              3 months ago

              The plus DLSRs, especially before the D40/D800 was that they were extremely repeatable. As soon as additional features, like face/eye AF got added to the mix, it all got… very hairy. “Will my camera find a face? What if it looses that face?” Aside from Canon and Sony, most modern mirrorless still struggle with front or back focusing some when using face/eye detect. Electronic View Finders can be very cool with all the information they display (level information, histograms, even flashing blown highlights/shadows in the case of Olympus, etc), but unless you’re looking at a pretty modern (or $$ used) body, they tend to not be very high resolution. My A7II is serviceable, but it’s not that great - especially when manually focusing. But speaking of manual focusing, one of the cool things an EVF can do is focus magnification for the thing you’re focusing on as you adjust focus. Blackout free shooting with an electronic shutter on an A9 makes panning photos a lot easier for me since you can see the thing you’re tracking continue to move.

              /many random thoughts

              All that said, used F-mount lenses are getting cheap - especially if you have a built in AF motor which you do…

              • KammicRelief@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                Interesting points. First, yes about the F-mount lenses! I don’t often use random old lenses, but, probably my most “successful” photo (big air quotes there) was when I needed a longer lens, which none of my “nice” ones are, so I slapped on an MF 135mm that someone had given me, and boom.

                As for facial recognition, sports stuff, focus tracking, etc. – I basically do most of my (non-casual/family/etc.) shooting on a tripod, at things that ain’t moving (or if they are, like clouds or water, I’m using an ND filter to get that motion); so, a lot of those newer bells and whistles I don’t really consider. I like lots of megapixels, low noise, a good lens, solid tripod, etc.

                • IMALlama@lemmy.worldOP
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                  3 months ago

                  You already have the things you said you like, so be happy I guess. Newer sensor generations are always incrementally decreasing noise, but it’s not that dramatic. Newer lenses are constantly improving sharpness, increasing AF speed, decreasing vignetting, decreasing loca, etc but they’re pricey. The only thing that really stands out to me is sensor based image stabilization offered on mirrorless bodies. You can get some fairly long, and thus low noise, exposures with surprising sharpness hand held these days. M43 cameras are the clear winners here, but even on APS-C and FF sensors, the stabilization offered by sensor based stabilization is better than that offered by lens based stabilization.

  • Jeena@jemmy.jeena.net
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    4 months ago

    Actually I’m mostly interested in how long it takes until you as a amateur photographer “recover” from having children. I was out and shooting and traveling so much before, but now 95% of the photos are the baby. But to be honest I’d love to go out and shoot, but I can’t. I have to take the baby with me and then it’s all focus on him and the camera is then only heavy and in the way. Changing lenses is the worst.

    • IMALlama@lemmy.worldOP
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      4 months ago

      Our oldest was around four and the younger one was around 18 months before I picked up a J5. That camera really was a gateway drug back into photography. It’s small enough to fit into a somewhat larger pocket (gym shorts, cargo pants, most coats) with the 10mm (27mm FF EQ) prime on it. I carried the body, with a lens attached, two additional lenses, and its charger in a truly tiny 3l bag - basically the size of a fanny pack. Before the J5 I would break out my D5300 occasional. The J5 got me back into the habit of carrying a dedicated camera again. It was extremely unobtrusive, both from a blending in perspective and a size/weigh perspective. It took me about 6 months to move onto a larger mirrorless body for better low light performance and I haven’t really looked back. The only other thing I can offer up is getting a peak design camera strap. Carrying your camera cross body at your hip, with the lens pointing down, is way more natural than walking around with it sticking straight out in front of you. It also will help the camera not move around as much with you or when you bend over.

      It’s true that we don’t do a ton of travel, and that our trips are now in-state, but we’re still doing something most every weekend even if that’s just going to a park. There are plenty of opportunities to take interesting photos of the scenery around us, as well as the kids interacting with the world and getting to experience something new for the first time.