It is truly upsetting to see how few people use password managers. I have witnessed people who always use the same password (and even tell me what it is), people who try to login to accounts but constantly can’t remember which credentials they used, people who store all of their passwords on a text file on their desktop, people who use a password manager but store the master password on Discord, entire tech sectors in companies locked to LastPass, and so much more. One person even told me they were upset that websites wouldn’t tell you password requirements after you create your account, and so they screenshot the requirements every time so they could remember which characters to add to their reused password.
Use a password manager. Whatever solution you think you can come up with is most likely not secure. Computers store a lot of temporary files in places you might not even know how to check, so don’t just stick it in a text file. Use a properly made password manager, such as Bitwarden or KeePassXC. They’re not going to steal your passwords. Store your master password in a safe place or use a passphrase that you can remember. Even using your browser’s password storage is better than nothing. Don’t reuse passwords, use long randomly generated ones.
It’s free, it’s convenient, it takes a few minutes to set up, and its a massive boost in security. No needing to remember passwords. No needing to come up with new passwords. No manually typing passwords. I know I’m preaching to the choir, but if even one of you decides to use a password manager after this then it’s an easy win.
Please, don’t wait. If you aren’t using a password manager right now, take a few minutes. You’ll thank yourself later.
is it possible to sync keepassxc between computers + phone?
Syncthing has worked well for me between 3 devices(Linux, android, windows). I’ve had one conflict in 6mo and it was easy to identify the right copy to select in keepass’ prompt since the more recent one was a larger file.
Synchthing also provides optional version control which makes backing up easy.
A long time ago, I used Syncthing to do this. Sometimes there would be file conflicts, which was a pain to resolve, so I switched to BitWarden (using their server for syncing) and have been using it ever since.
I have it synced across 4 computers and my phone. You just need a central repository. For that I use nextcloud. I suppose you could use OneDrive, Google drive, box, sync thing, or something else though.
Yes. The easiest/most reliable is syncthing. Yet there’s the online-component which is inherently vulnerable. Depends on how paranoid you are.
You can lock your password database with a key file (this is a standard feature in keepassxc) and transfer the key file once between devices via sneakernet (microsd or usb drive). That way even if someone intercepts your database file, AND knows your password, it is still virtually impossible to crack. Should be a good enough solution, unless you are quantum-tier paranoid
That is actually a good idea. I’m not using one rn as i only manually transfer it. Might be worth considering. Thanks
tbh i just keep the master version on my computer and physically transfer it to my phone every so often. i try to avoid using too many password-requiring services on my phone.
i used to do this, until I started using syncthing
i only add password entries on my laptop then sync the file directly to my phone using syncthing to avoid conflict
Yes, but it’s a bit involved to automate it. KeePassXC has a less technical recommendation here
@Charger8232 I have been using Vaultwarden (Unofficial Bitwarden compatible server written in Rust) selfhosted for a few years now, and I have to say I’m very happy with it. I also use the backup strategy, on some media (USB stick and SSD) encrypted with Veracrypt.
I migrated from Bitwarden to Proton Pass (mostly due to their TOP integrations) and I am enjoying it very much. They are constantly improving it, which is also a plus.
Do you mean OTP?
I self-host vaultwarden, and I have that. I think it’s a paid feature if not self-hosting?
KeepassXC ++ Yubikey ++ STRONG password changed every 7 days.
Tap for spoiler
This solution is compatible with virtually all platforms & browsers
Changing passwords is almost always completely useless, and requiring it dramatically weakens security.
What’s the logic behind this statement? I would’ve thought that if a website’s logins and passwords were somehow leaked, the more often I change my password, the less likely it is for the leaked password to still be usable by bad guys based on the shorter time horizon.
Leaked how? No good practice allows any way for a password to “leak”.
What rotating passwords does is ensure people who don’t use a password manager either write their password down more and more frequently, or use a weaker password with some simple changing pattern that doesn’t add anything.
What’s wrong with a password manager built in the browser?
That’s what I’ve resorted to, but I only use Firefox because it has a master password.
Chrome has no master password so what stops any fool from stealing your passwords while you’re taking a piss, I don’t know.
Password managers always cause me headaches, though, and never want to integrate correctly. More trouble than their worth in my estimation.
Honestly nothing. I recommend this to everyone because it is the easiest way to set up and offers huge advantages.
- No more password reuse, per site random passwords.
- Auto-fill reduces chance of phishing attacks work because you get suspicious if the password doesn’t auto-fill.
- Most browsers will integrate it into their sync service to reduce the risk of you losing your passwords.
I think these are the two biggest benefits and every browser password manager will accomplish both.
This is what I do: I use my browser to store all my randomly generated passwords. If I ever need them on my phone I either sync or go to my desktop and view the password and type it over.
I have a password manager with a family plan so my wife can use it. Does she? Absolutely not. And that’s why we don’t share bank accounts.
Same and she has the balls to ask me for passwords!
Same here. Kinda feels good to know I am not alone with this, though.
Quick question - what are your opinions on using Firefox’s inbuilt password manager? I’ve installed Bitwarden as an extension, but I find Firefox to be more convenient.
I mostly use FF on Linux, Windows, and Android and have no issues with using FF cross platforms.
I use bitwarden over Firefox because it can auto fill into apps. So, my bank apps or whatever else. And I’m not tied to Firefox if, for some reason, I want to stop using it.
It’s similar to why I don’t use Samsung pass on my phone. It’d work better filling in the fields, but that’s not going to help me on my PC, and I don’t want to maintain multiple managers.
And I’m not tied to Firefox if, for some reason, I want to stop using it.
Not gonna happen.
deleted by creator
Firefox has an option to set a master password, doesn’t it?
It does
Firefox password manager is brilliant, my move to Bitwarden wasn’t worth it and I regret it.
Don’t. It’s not in your hand is the simple reason.
My advice is keepassxc. Got a ff-addon that does basically the same. But you have your password-file under your control. And do backups!
What permissions does the extension need to work? Then, what is the maximum level of damage a malicious update to said extension can do with those permissions?
I don’t know. You wouldn’t really need it, if you’re concerned. If you’re fine you can just C&P or even let keepassxc use it’s auto-type. So no addon needed. It’s just more comfortable. And you can never have security AND comfort. Security is absolutely always uncomfortable.
I’m in the same boat. FF is just too damn convenient
Yeah, the used to have the lockwise app, which was awesome, I don’t know why they scrapped it
Unless you really really need portability between devices, paying for an online password manager is idiotic in my view, you’re generally just waiting for someone to hack it (which happens all the time).
I use firefox’s local, inbuilt manager and that’s everything I need.
Wild ass comment.
Unless you really really need portability between devices
Who doesn’t??? What do you do, copy 20-char randomly generated passwords manually all the time? That’s the whole point of password managers…
I use firefox’s local, inbuilt manager
Browsers are NOT a secure storage for sensitive data, if you want a local password manager at least please use KeePassXC.
My password manager is
mkdir ~/Account/some.domain cd $_ genpasswd | openssl some-cipher -k 'really strong encryption password' >pass.enc echo username >login#decrypt cd ~/Account/some.domain openssl some-cipher -d <pass.enc | xclip #paste in field xclip login #paste in fieldCouldn’t be easier, couldn’t be safer.
Why?
Why would I use a password manager when this is much simpler and less error-prone?
Nothing about this is simpler than just using a proper password manager.
One must imagine skill issue.
I suggest looking at how many dynlibs your password manager links against and tell me it’s “simpler” again.
Replying to this pretentious comment for the sake of others reading this:
Run
history | grep genpasswdfor why this is not a good password storage solution. One must image skill issue.If you think the CLI is the cool kid way to go, use https://www.passwordstore.org/, but tbh I don’t recommend that either.
1337
Using Proton Pass was a game changer to me , I don’t have to ignore the necessity to put a strong and complicated password for security reasons anymore, Proton generate it to me and stores everything ( so I don’t need to remember which password I set for which account ) But the bad aspects of cloud services worry me a little about this: the possibility of a security breach of the service, or the possibility of not being able to access it for any reason is a real disaster if it happens… so I’m thinking of exporting my passwords to another safe place for such cases.
so I’m thinking of exporting my passwords to another safe place for such cases.
I’m also using ProtonPass, and I agree it’s a game changer. I love the interface, the Android app is amazing and well integrated.
To not be locked in into ProtonPass in case of real disaster, once a month I export the ProtonPass data and import to KeepassXC in my local machine. It’s pretty easy, you just have to export to CSV, and import into KeepassXC, the interface will help you to map the CSV fields accordingly, and you will have a local accessible backup in case of disaster. Don’t forget to remove the CSV from your computer after importing to KeepassXC.
But the bad aspects of cloud services worry me a little about this
KeePassXC is entirely local.
I know , but won’t that affect my storage if I added +1000 password ?
unless your storage is a floppy disk, won’t be a problem
I actually considered sticking it on a floppy disk I have. It really is a wonder how Linux is able to recognize floppy disks immediately…
Passwords don’t take up much space.
It shouldn’t take up too much space. My personal password file is under 2 KB, so for you it may be 1 MB at most.
Which creates issue with having to synchronize it between devices. There is always something to worry about :)
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
that’s nice soundbite, i am just saying you have to be realistic. if you are aiming at people who up until now had their passwords on post-it on the monitor, switching to tool where you need to come up with some synchronization system on your own might not be what convinces them.
Exactly, so use Proton :P
even if their servers were compromised it’s all encrypted. it only decrypts on your end
You can export all your passwords to an encrypted and password protected file. I ocasionally back it up to a USB device so that I always have an offline copy available.
Still, one of these days I was logged out of my proton pass on Android and couldn’t connect to the internet. I was locked down.
just. write it down? in a notebook? keepassxc is rly good if you dont want to do that though
This is not a real solution. You’re supposed to have a unique password for everything. Managing that notebook would be an hassle, not to mention backing it up. It would easily have dozens of records, if not hundreds.
oh shit fair enough!! i use temp-mail.org for most things so i frogot about accounts for every tiny service lmao
But what if you lose the notebook? Or just don’t have it on you, when you need it? God help ya if someone malicious gets it. Keep it digital, always available, backed up, and secure.
I always recommend Proton Pass. A) because they have a forever free version and B) because hopefully they start looking into the whole suite in general and even if they don’t subscribe, they are more aware afterwards (hopefully).
I’ve been using Firefox’s built in password store, plus 2fa for sensitive accounts when possible. Are there any known issues? Uploading all my passwords to someone else’s server sounds silly.
Theoretically, it’s possible to store a encrypted database on someone else’s system in a way where they never have the ability to see its contents, as you encryption and decryption only ever happens in the client on your devices.
Whether this is actually done in a way that enforces that on various password managers is unknowable with proprietary code.
Personally I self-host vaultwarden. All the benefits of syncing my passwords across devices, but the server enabling that, runs on my hardware.
Firefox Sync is end-to-end encrypted. So Firefox’s password manager with syncing does this.
To use that remote encrypted db, you need a stored client side secret, and a customer service department that deals with users who have lost that. See also “mud puddle test”.
and a customer service department that deals with users who have lost that
I’d not heard of the “mud puddle test” but I immediately thought that any provider that does that, is doing it wrong.
Unless there’s an exploit of which I’m unaware, my self-hosted solutions pass the mud puddle test.
Companies have to know about the mud puddle test, but then they have to make an informed decision about whether they want to pass it. Hard disk and data recovery companies have been known to employ grief counsellors to assist their customers in coping with finding out that their disk drive is too trashed for the data to be restored. Choosing to fail the mud puddle test puts the password manager company in the same position. Some customers may, in fact, expect that recovering from the mud puddle is one of the services they are paying the company for. It’s the same reason hosted databases like RDS are a thing. Either way though, the company should be transparent about how they handle this question.
I agree with all of that, I was just pointing out that “uploading all your passwords to someone else’s server” can be done in a way that isn’t silly. You’re preaching to the choir.
Though even then, the best way is for that server to be yours, not someone else’s. And it does come with advantages in terms of convenience.
The benefits of having my passwords on a server (even my own server) seem tiny compared to just occasionally having to type one into a second computer after generating it on the first. If I had used a dozen computers instead of two, maybe it would be something to think about.
I don’t understand.
You only use each passwords once? You never log in to things on a new device without the one on which you created the account on hand? You only ever need authentication on two devices?
I own half a dozen devices on which I might want to log into places, and on several occasions it has been extremely useful to be able to access my password database from a completely new device from anywhere in the world, with nothing but the memorized master credentials.
I don’t think you can argue that the advantages don’t exist, even if they aren’t useful to you personally.
Uploading all my passwords to someone else’s server sounds silly.
KeePassXC is entirely local.
Are there any known issues?
LastPass (ironically) explains this best: https://blog.lastpass.com/posts/2022/06/why-you-shouldnt-store-passwords-in-a-browser
Thanks but the LastPass article is partly inapplicable and partly marketing. The one good point it makes for non-corporate users is about leaving your browser open where attackers can access it, say at the office. For a while I tried using a FIDO2 token but they weren’t well enough supported at the time. Maybe that is easier now.
I guess the reasons I would make would be not all accounts are web-based, and using a browser for anything other than browsing is a bad idea. Browsers aren’t exactly focused on keeping passwords safe, so why not use a tool designed for it? Don’t keep all your eggs in one basket
P.S. Yes, FIDO2 is much more supported
I guess I use a few APIs with auth tokens that are like passwords but I don’t see how a password manager would help. Yeah the tech for this stuff could be better, but vendors keep messing it up.
What about your Lemmy account?
On my laptop I use the Firefox password store. On my phone I mostly use Voyager which presumably stores the password in a protected app file. It could probably be extracted by rooting the phone but that has gotten harder to do, and anyway it’s also in Firefox on the same phone. Voyager is basically an API client. I can see some interesting ways to improve this but haven’t cared enough.
I’m not in IT but I followed the Michael Bazzell podcast until he disappeared. Guy was a bit paranoid but there was great info there. My understanding was browser saving passwords isn’t secure, that those passwords are open to scraping from bad players. Ofc I can’t reference this because the entire body of over 300 podcasts disappeared with him.
Agree on Bitwarden and such.
Say, what are the chances either
- someone comes to depend on the password manager to get into their accounts, gets locked out of the password manager, and loses access to all their accounts (e.g. using the password manager to create and store passwords they might never have even seen);
or
- their password manager (or account) gets hacked, somehow, and all their accounts get taken at once
As Kramer said. Levels. If tou layer your security 2 becomes a non issue. What you have, what you know, and who you are. Which plays into 1. The 3-2-1 of backup. 3 copies of the data. 2 different media. At least 1 off site. Suprising as it might be, writing a great backup is to write your password down. I have a piece of paper with my password in a lock box in my apartment, in a safety deposit box at my bank, and at my parent’s house
These are real issues however they are pretty easy to mitigate, and I would say that the upsides of a password manager far outweigh the downsides.
-
Make sure that you are regularly typing your master password for the first bit. After that you’ll never forget it. You can also help them out by saving a copy of their master password for them at least until they are sure they have memorized it. There are also password managers where you can recovery your account as long as you have the keys cached on at least one device.
-
This is far, far outweighed by the risk of password reuse. This is because when a single one of the sites you use gets hacked then people will take that credential list and try it on every other site. So with a password manager there is just one target, without it is one of hundreds of sites where you reused your password. Many password managers also have end-to-end encryption so without your password the sync service can’t be hacked (as it doesn’t have access to your passwords).
Well, what if they somehow manage to get into my password manager account? I mean, it has a login, like any other account. The way to prevent it would be to have a strong enough password. Regardless, if they somehow got my main password, they’d have free access to all my credentials everywhere, and would be able to log into them as easily as I can. I mean, it is easier to secure one account well vs. however many others that the password manager can take care of. But still, a centralised hub with easy access to all my accounts feels like a one-stop shop for taking over my online life
I mean, to myself, I can deal with the consequences of my choices (as much as they can suck sometimes). But recommending stuff to other people I find complicated. I mean, I’ve gotten locked out of accounts due to 2fa (some being old and lost to time, others due to an unlucky series of events and a last minute half-assed backup) and even had to troubleshoot and/or reinstall (Linux) operating systems on my laptop (one instance of which relates to the aforementioned 2fa incident). To recommend something to someone and risk something like that, and be responsible for it… I mean, I once had to help troubleshoot a non-booting Linux machine via messages and photos during lunch out, and I myself am not an expert, so I had to online research from my phone and relay the information
These are all good points. This is why it is important to match your recommendations to the person. For example if I know they have Chrome and a Google account I might just recommend using that. Yes, it isn’t end-to-end encrypted and Google isn’t great for privacy but at least they are already managing logins over all of their devices.
In many cases perfect is the enemy of better. I would rather them use any password manager and unique passwords (even “a text file on their desktop”) than them sticking to one password anywhere because other solutions are too complicated.
-
- Ultimitaly its up to the user to remember the master password. I’m not familiar with how bitwarden works, but do use keepssXC. I hear bitwarden is better for less techical people due to having built in account/sync options. (You can also self-host BW if you want)
Keepass is file based, it is up to you to backup the file, for most users putting it an auto-synced cloud drive folder is their best bet. It’s automatic, multi-platform and offsite. Many technical users use sync thing (or equivalent) to manage the file across multiple backup locations.
KeePassXC is essentially a GUI for KeePass datbase, like word and openoffice can both open a .doc file, multiple programs can open a keepass file. If KeePassXC dies, theres others options for opening the file.
That being said, IOS options suck, theres one called Strongbox that is, in my opinion, the best. Its not FOSS like the others. Free version works 100% no problems, but they ask a high $20/yr sub or $90 lifetime for a handful of nonessential features (I’d love an decent alternative if anyone has one).
For Android I like KeepassDX and Keepass2Android.
- Getting hacked is a legitimate concern. However the greatest risk is still duplicate passwords. The time it will take crack an individual database is going to be less well spent than dumping a million username/password sets into a thousand sites and hoping for a match.
Realistically, if you’re the specific target of a hacker going specificaly after your database files you’re best off freezing your credit and bank accounts.
If your database gets hacked, there are a few ways you can midigate the damge, its up to an individual to balance convince and security.
First is 2fa. Keepass works great for TOTP 2fa, with browser integrations, its a breeze signing into sites. If you want more security, you would have a seperate database file with a different master password for 2fa. Now a hacker needs to crack 2 databases.
Another way to midigate the risk is to seperate whatever emails you use from the main bunch, this way if the main databse gets compromised, you won’t lose the emails that let you reset everything else. If the email gets cracked, they won’t have a convient list of accounts to go mess with. Also make sure the emails have all the security and recovery options available setup.
3, bonus round Finally for fincial security, don’t have your credit card saved on every site. I don’t let most of them store it all and use privacy.com for pretty much every thing these days. Set transaction limits on regularly used sites, and set up a “1-time use” card for anythibg irregular.
Even if some brakes into, for example my amazon account, they are going to find a $100 purchase won’t work. I’ll get an email and can just cancel the privacy card for amazon (I’d probably kill them all to be safe) and then work on resecuring everything.
To top it off Privacy.com it self has a dedicated credit card attached with a strict limit to midigate damge.
For privacy.com:
- great for anyone in the USA
- don’t worry about difficult subscription cancellations again, just turn that one’s dedicated card off
- I have personally blown past the daily spend limit of 250$ without issue, idk if that limit is real. The 1000$/mo may be though I’ve never hit that.
- I’ve used privacy.com for everything from Amazon to car insurance to gym memberships.
On credit freezes:
- a freeze means that your consumer report will not be shared, which means applications for credit in your name will be denied
- all USA consumer reporting agencies (data brokers) are legally required to freeze sharing of your reports for free upon your request
- you can temporarily unfreeze when you get a new credit card, apply for rental property, etc.
- don’t let them upsell it or try to direct you to another page with similar language, it is free
- credit monitoring products need to request your report to see if any new accounts have opened. Don’t monitor it, prevent it by freezing the reports
- freezes are required for any data broker, not just credit. This includes LexisNexis (job history), and presumably the ones that do rental and vehicle ownership history though i don’t know their names.
I was talking about the individual card limits that can be set, those definatly work.
Edit, looking my account, I too have 250daily and 1000 monthy limit. The next paragraph might be be outdated?
I know the total daily limit is “adaptive” or something set based on your spending habits. I’d prefer setting the limit myself, but it is what it is.
