Thank you for this, it’s annoying how it’s still needs to be said but i’m glad you did.
To add a bit to your “they’re from a different time” point: even if there was such a thing as a past where transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc was ok (it was never ok), we’re obviously not in that time anymore and people need to adapt, the year you’re born doesn’t give you a privilege or permission to hold onto bigotry or other bullshit that was common in “your time”, and there’s tons of people who are from the same time and aren’t bigots, so it isn’t an excuse (and there isn’t any, actually).
The entire “different time” excuse is meant to apply to media, not people! Most texts written in the 1700s that include references to people of color are probably going to at least use outdated language, if not straight up racist perspectives, but because it was a different time you’re supposed to acknowledge that it can still impart valuable ideas so long as you take it in context. Taking that scholarly technique and trying to apply it to crotchety assholes real people spouting hate makes me want to explode
Literally! because unlike media, we’re not static and we’re not stuck in time. There’s probably plenty of terms that we use today that might be considered ignorant or incorrent in the future, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we were using them in a negative way.
seizes excuse with all paws and extra-bitey jaws Oh, oh, is it time to talk about “crazy” and “insane” and “dude” and “guy” and “bro?” And apparently we also still have to mention that the r-slur and “ree” are ableist shit too?
…Am seriously fed up with people who seem to know very few words and all of them inappropriate. And yes, treating everyone like a male buddy is inappropriate. And yes, “crazy” still clearly has its association with mental illness. While many people obviously think it means literally anything at any time in any context they also still call people that as a way of suggesting a person’s got mental problems.
I expect I’ll get trolled for this (as always, 'cause people absolutely cannot stand being asked to change or even consider their own behaviour) but I’m sick of how bad this place is about gendered language and slurs in particular, to the point where I assume somecritter I otherwise respect is gonna misgender me and I’ll just immediately delete my account and be done with this place altogether.
Anyway, that’s my lil tiny rant about some of the lack of care I see floating around, which reminds me to point out that it’s not the words that cause problems (outside of straight-up slurs, anyway) but rather how they’re used. Some seem to think there’s some constantly-changing list of banned words but “don’t call me that” means “don’t call me that,” not “you’re going to gaol for not having the latest word list.”
I’m more of the opinion that it’s ok to use terms like dude, bro, etc. in a gender neutral way in certain situations, i feel like they reached the point where they can kinda mean anybody, but i totally understand that not everyone is gonna be comfortable with that, so i’m not against using other gender-neutral alternatives (and usually do so by default).
And yeah definitely agree about that “internet habit” of assuming everyone is a man unless told otherwise, it’s so annoying and not to mention sexist.
I wish more people were open to the idea of changing and updating their language as time goes by and as we learn more, there’s tons of ppl who don’t really get that just because their intention wasn’t negative or because it isn’t like… a slur, it doesn’t mean that what they’re saying can’t cause harm or that isn’t ignorant.
This lemmy instance i’m currently in seems pretty nice and chill, if you ever do need a place to switch to.
It’s really irritating to see such language anywhere, but especially in ostensibly progressive spaces. I’m trying to change my language (never used the r-slur, but I’ve used “crazy” so much that … I try not to, really). And I see male-centric language all over the place. It’s unfortunately ubiquitous where I live.
The one that never sits right with me where I live is “guys.” The counter-argument is that it is no longer gendered, but after educating myself more on the nature of casual sexism, I think it’s actually an example of how male is perceived as the default, the norm. I don’t think anyone is deliberately trying to be sexist by using it, but claiming that “guys” is gender neutral really seems to be a male-centric perspective.
I used to have an account on raddle, and I also learned a lot from them about why ableist language is harmful. I’m working on it, but it’s almost like I need a buddy to help call me out when I lapse and say something like “idiot” or “crazy.” And the frustrating thing is, as someone with mental illness, I feel like I should know better.
I like to play with words and create colourful, cutesy terms. Probably my favourite for this purpose is “critter” :3 Everycritter, anycritter, you critters, those critters. … Of course if that stops being weird I’ll have to come up with a new one. Hmm. I suppose I must mandate that only the cutest critters use this particular term >:P
Also, it’s nice to see I’m not totally alone in caring about these things. Though some common themes around here (such as the problematic careless word choice issues referenced above) are quite upsetting I at least manage to say some things like this that typically get me attacked. … Though maybe it’s just because I only say them three-plus layers down a comment tree nocritter’s gonna see. 🤷♀
This is completely a tangent but Walk on the Wild Side by Lou Reed is a good example of media that is “of it’s time” but had good intentions. He uses a lot of outdated terminology for trans people, but he was dating and living with a trans woman at the time. As well, he uses the term “coloured girls” for his backup singers. But that’s because he was drawing attention to them. He paid his singers proper wages which was a big deal at the time, and was drawing attention to their presence in music in a subversive way.
Someone elsewhere in this thread is suggesting that we’re all obstinate and inherently resistant to change, but … I can’t relate.
The ability to learn from our missteps and prejudices, and subsequently change and grow, is a hallmark of being human. It’s not about education, either. I’ve known people who only went through grade 3 who are not so destructively stubborn. It doesn’t seem like any way to live to tear other people down because I encounter something new to me.
Yeah, that sounds like projection on their part to me.
We’re all constantly growing and changing, reaching a certain age doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, you just have to be willing to do so, and a lot of these people are very obviously not.
But saying “I’m unwilling to learn” sounds bad so they’re obviously searching for excuses lol.
No I didn’t? What? I was referring to people with bigoted beliefs and cited a real psychological phenomenon. Don’t lie about what I said for validation.
The subject of your post was tangentially about correcting bigots so that’s what I’m talking about.
Thank you for this, it’s annoying how it’s still needs to be said but i’m glad you did.
To add a bit to your “they’re from a different time” point: even if there was such a thing as a past where transphobia, homophobia, racism, etc was ok (it was never ok), we’re obviously not in that time anymore and people need to adapt, the year you’re born doesn’t give you a privilege or permission to hold onto bigotry or other bullshit that was common in “your time”, and there’s tons of people who are from the same time and aren’t bigots, so it isn’t an excuse (and there isn’t any, actually).
The entire “different time” excuse is meant to apply to media, not people! Most texts written in the 1700s that include references to people of color are probably going to at least use outdated language, if not straight up racist perspectives, but because it was a different time you’re supposed to acknowledge that it can still impart valuable ideas so long as you take it in context. Taking that scholarly technique and trying to apply it to
crotchety assholesreal people spouting hate makes me want to explodeLiterally! because unlike media, we’re not static and we’re not stuck in time. There’s probably plenty of terms that we use today that might be considered ignorant or incorrent in the future, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we were using them in a negative way.
seizes excuse with all paws and extra-bitey jaws Oh, oh, is it time to talk about “crazy” and “insane” and “dude” and “guy” and “bro?” And apparently we also still have to mention that the r-slur and “ree” are ableist shit too?
…Am seriously fed up with people who seem to know very few words and all of them inappropriate. And yes, treating everyone like a male buddy is inappropriate. And yes, “crazy” still clearly has its association with mental illness. While many people obviously think it means literally anything at any time in any context they also still call people that as a way of suggesting a person’s got mental problems.
I expect I’ll get trolled for this (as always, 'cause people absolutely cannot stand being asked to change or even consider their own behaviour) but I’m sick of how bad this place is about gendered language and slurs in particular, to the point where I assume somecritter I otherwise respect is gonna misgender me and I’ll just immediately delete my account and be done with this place altogether.
Anyway, that’s my lil tiny rant about some of the lack of care I see floating around, which reminds me to point out that it’s not the words that cause problems (outside of straight-up slurs, anyway) but rather how they’re used. Some seem to think there’s some constantly-changing list of banned words but “don’t call me that” means “don’t call me that,” not “you’re going to gaol for not having the latest word list.”
yapyapyap squeek!
I’m more of the opinion that it’s ok to use terms like dude, bro, etc. in a gender neutral way in certain situations, i feel like they reached the point where they can kinda mean anybody, but i totally understand that not everyone is gonna be comfortable with that, so i’m not against using other gender-neutral alternatives (and usually do so by default).
And yeah definitely agree about that “internet habit” of assuming everyone is a man unless told otherwise, it’s so annoying and not to mention sexist.
I wish more people were open to the idea of changing and updating their language as time goes by and as we learn more, there’s tons of ppl who don’t really get that just because their intention wasn’t negative or because it isn’t like… a slur, it doesn’t mean that what they’re saying can’t cause harm or that isn’t ignorant.
This lemmy instance i’m currently in seems pretty nice and chill, if you ever do need a place to switch to.
Thank. You.
It’s really irritating to see such language anywhere, but especially in ostensibly progressive spaces. I’m trying to change my language (never used the r-slur, but I’ve used “crazy” so much that … I try not to, really). And I see male-centric language all over the place. It’s unfortunately ubiquitous where I live.
The one that never sits right with me where I live is “guys.” The counter-argument is that it is no longer gendered, but after educating myself more on the nature of casual sexism, I think it’s actually an example of how male is perceived as the default, the norm. I don’t think anyone is deliberately trying to be sexist by using it, but claiming that “guys” is gender neutral really seems to be a male-centric perspective.
I used to have an account on raddle, and I also learned a lot from them about why ableist language is harmful. I’m working on it, but it’s almost like I need a buddy to help call me out when I lapse and say something like “idiot” or “crazy.” And the frustrating thing is, as someone with mental illness, I feel like I should know better.
The one positive thing I took away from living in the south was the gender-neutral “y’all.”
For those who don’t know, “y’all” refers to a small group of people and “all y’all” refers to a larger group of people.
I like to play with words and create colourful, cutesy terms. Probably my favourite for this purpose is “critter” :3 Everycritter, anycritter, you critters, those critters. … Of course if that stops being weird I’ll have to come up with a new one. Hmm. I suppose I must mandate that only the cutest critters use this particular term >:P
Also, it’s nice to see I’m not totally alone in caring about these things. Though some common themes around here (such as the problematic careless word choice issues referenced above) are quite upsetting I at least manage to say some things like this that typically get me attacked. … Though maybe it’s just because I only say them three-plus layers down a comment tree nocritter’s gonna see. 🤷♀
This is completely a tangent but Walk on the Wild Side by Lou Reed is a good example of media that is “of it’s time” but had good intentions. He uses a lot of outdated terminology for trans people, but he was dating and living with a trans woman at the time. As well, he uses the term “coloured girls” for his backup singers. But that’s because he was drawing attention to them. He paid his singers proper wages which was a big deal at the time, and was drawing attention to their presence in music in a subversive way.
Yes, louder!
Someone elsewhere in this thread is suggesting that we’re all obstinate and inherently resistant to change, but … I can’t relate.
The ability to learn from our missteps and prejudices, and subsequently change and grow, is a hallmark of being human. It’s not about education, either. I’ve known people who only went through grade 3 who are not so destructively stubborn. It doesn’t seem like any way to live to tear other people down because I encounter something new to me.
Yeah, that sounds like projection on their part to me. We’re all constantly growing and changing, reaching a certain age doesn’t mean you have to stop learning, you just have to be willing to do so, and a lot of these people are very obviously not. But saying “I’m unwilling to learn” sounds bad so they’re obviously searching for excuses lol.
They’re lying about my position for no discernible reason aside from poor comprehension. I’d recommend you read what I actually wrote.
No I didn’t? What? I was referring to people with bigoted beliefs and cited a real psychological phenomenon. Don’t lie about what I said for validation.
The subject of your post was tangentially about correcting bigots so that’s what I’m talking about.