Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.

Feddit.org now bans

  • The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”

  • Comparing Israel to the Nazis

  • Calls to end Zionism

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel

And much more. The full original post can be found here, or

Click here for full text of original post:

Hi.

In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.

While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.

And with that, let’s go:

In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.

Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.

There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.

If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
  • Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
  • Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
  • The slogan “from the river…”
  • Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
  • … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis

Comments will not be removed for the following:

  • Denouncing genocide.
  • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
  • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
  • Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.

If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @EuroMod@feddit.org account (which all mods have access to).

To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).

  • A news report:

    Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]

  • A legal treatise:

    In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.

  • Press release from the previous government:

    In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).

  • Another news report

    In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch

federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)

  • answersplease77@lemmy.world
    0·
    1 个月前

    I did not leave reddit to come to a fucked down version of political censorship. fuck you and begone. I’m blocking their instance

  • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 个月前

    Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.

    Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.

    Zionism means colonialism not just in practice, but from its very inception:

    • deathbird@mander.xyz
      0·
      1 个月前

      And yet every self-declared pro-Zionist I’ve talked to says Zionism is just the right of the state of Israel to exist, and so being anti-Zionist is being for the destruction of the state, and being for the destruction of the state is being for the death or dispossession of every person in the state.

      I think the German state is probably more inclined to interpret discussion of Zionism the way the pro-Zionists I’ve spoken to have describe the term.

      I think the historical description in the text that you link is accurate, but if you’re trying to argue that Germans should be able to critique Zionism however they want because of that, it’s like literally getting into an argument about the literal meaning of literally with people who use literally to mean figuratively, but instead of a random teenager or twee linguistic descriptivist, you are arguing with the state.

    • poVoq@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 个月前

      Yes, and you are free to critizise Zionism for that on Feddit.org. The legal problem is not that, but that the German authorities don’t play word games and tend to equate Zionism/Israel/Jews as a shortcut and leave it to courts to decide later if that was justified or not.

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
        0·
        1 个月前

        They clearly state in one of the rules that I just linked, that calling for an end to zionism is a bannable offense.

        The german state is full of witch-hunters and its people have learned nothing.

        • poVoq@slrpnk.net
          0·
          1 个月前

          Yes and as I explained already there is a very specific legal reason for that, but this doesn’t mean you can’t critizise Zionism or call it a terrible settler-colonialist project.

          • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            0·
            1 个月前

            there is a very specific legal reason for that

            A misguided or intentionally malicious reason, for what the effect of that law is. Codifying into law the conflation of Judaism/ethnic Jewish identity with zionism is itself antisemitic. Calling for the end of Zionism isn’t the same as calling for the end of Jews or Judaism. What is the use of being allowed to criticize Zionism the ideology when you’re not also allowed to advocate for its end?

            “Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology.” <- Ok “Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology, and Israel as a Zionist project should be dissolved in favor of a single-state that provides equal rights for Palestinians” <- Not ok, somehow?

            The law as written only allows abstract and dissociated critique of Zionism, but forbids any criticism that comes too close to threatening Israel’s existence as a ethno-nationalist state. That’s a huge problem.

            • poVoq@slrpnk.net
              0·
              1 个月前

              I didn’t make those laws, and I agree that the German government should make more of a distinction between antisemitism and anti-zionism. But it doesn’t and honestly in your above example you could just say:

              “Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology, and Israel should become a state that provides equal rights for Palestinians”

              An no one would object 🤷

              This singular and persistent focus on the destruction of the (unfortunatly) already existing state of Israel, really makes it likely that many people rather use that as a dogwistle for antisemitism.

              • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                0·
                1 个月前

                “Zionism is a settler-colonial ideology, and Israel should become a state that provides equal rights for Palestinians”

                Except the moderation rule feddit has implemented does not allow for this statement, unless you specifically say that jews deserve equal rights in a single-state solution - which is similar to those who respond to ‘black lives matter’ by saying ‘but all lives matter’. Saying ‘Palestinians deserve equal rights’ wouldn’t be necessary if equal rights were already afforded them, and the point of making that statement is to draw attention to the fact that currently aren’t

                This singular and persistent focus on the destruction of the (unfortunatly) already existing state of Israel, really makes it likely that many people rather use that as a dogwistle for antisemitism.

                Nobody who is advocating for Palestinian liberation uses the word “destroy” or ‘destruction’ when referring to the dissolution of Israel - I only ever see those words used by people trying to make this inference between anti-zionism and antisemitism. The only people who take statements of liberation as a threat against Jews are people who are collaborating or benefiting from the oppression Israel conducts in their name.

                • poVoq@slrpnk.net
                  0·
                  1 个月前

                  Sorry, but you are misinterpreting that rule. What I said is perfectly compatible with the rule. The extension that this also applies to Jews is solely to preempt the common “equal rights and the Jews are free to leave” dogwistle.

                  And you are highly mistaken that there are no people advocating for the destruction of Israel, in fact it is quite common.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
                0·
                1 个月前

                It’s so funny how you types are constantly hiding behind the law and saying, “I didn’t make the law, I don’t agree with it, but they have to do this to avoid legal liability, hands are tied” and then five seconds later you say stuff like, “criticism of Israel is a dogwhistle for antisemitism.”

                You’re a coward, refusing to admit your real positions because you know you can’t defend them.

                • poVoq@slrpnk.net
                  0·
                  1 个月前

                  Please don’t put words in my mouth. My real position is crystal clear and I am happy to stand by it.

      • acargitz@lemmy.ca
        0·
        1 个月前

        Oh I see. Which is why the admins/mods of Feddit.org are also publicly coming out criticizing the German government for this crackdown on nuanced speech, right? Right?

      • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        1 个月前

        but that the German authorities don’t play word games and tend to equate Zionism/Israel/Jews

        Sounds like they very much do play word games then.

    • poVoq@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 个月前

      The post literally says that you can critizise that 🤦

      Please understand that there can be some nuance on the topic and that people in Germany are understandably extra careful on the topic.

      • wpb@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 个月前

        Claiming that the genocide, apartheid, and colonialism perpetrated by Israel is in any way complex or nuanced is such a disgustingly smug way of revealing you haven’t spent even a moment thinking the situation through, or reading up on the history. Gross.

          • ok_comfortable6561@lemmy.ml
            0·
            1 个月前

            You watched some video of some civilians getting hurt in a war zone and formed all your opinions about the conflict based on your emotional response to that, so yeah, you are being reactionary.

      • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
        0·
        1 个月前

        So hand over the instance moderation to people in a different jurisdiction, or shut it down entirely. Don’t comply with this bullshit.

          • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
            0·
            1 个月前

            Having an opinion isn’t “complaining”. I’m not even on that instance, I just happen to care about solidarity with victims of genocide.

  • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 个月前

    Palestinians, remember the following: you can resist your occupation but ONLY on the occupiers terms.

    For the rest of us, remember the following: you can protest genocide, but ONLY on the genocider’s terms.

  • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 个月前

    ive got temp banned from there for mentioning europe engages in colonialism.

    havent participated a lot in there since.

    • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
      0·
      1 个月前

      Caught a perma ban there for calling german oligarchs being heavy on Nazi nepo babies

      That server has censorship that’s more clown than lemmy.world.

      German regime front on Lemmy… Lol

      People should vote with their feet.

      These clowns should not host pan EU communities, let them circle jerk Zionism in an echo chamber 🤡

  • comfy@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 个月前

    The write-up they link is also insightful. Notably, they “explicitly reject these accusations” of being Zionists and insist it’s a legal precaution required by their countries.

    I’ve bought servers for hosting some small communities and I sometimes thought maybe I was paranoid for retaining anonymity and carefully picking the country and company to allow muh freedoms as far as speech goes, but it’s interesting seeing .world and feddit pull out the “just following legislation” card (which is understandable, given that staff imprisonment is obviously bad for their community, but also irresponsible and complicit to simply accept the situation instead of resolving it, and because this is an internet community there are safe ways to resolve it).

          • ohulancutash@feddit.ukEnglish
            0·
            1 个月前

            It is however illegal for them to allow such material to remain on their servers once they’re made aware of it.

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              0·
              1 个月前

              Their server isn’t located within Germany, from what I’m reading.

              From what I understand, the situation they are worried about is a german authority gaining access to their personal devices or somehow de-anonymizing their accounts and associating them with their actual identity while living in/traveling through germany, and seeing the type of content they are posting/allowing to be posted on a community they moderate.

              The actual risk of exposure to them is incredibly small.

              • poVoq@slrpnk.net
                0·
                1 个月前

                This is false. The German police will contact the Austrian one, who will share the contact details of the persons legally responsible for publication, and if those happen to be residents of Germany, the Austrian laws are irrelevant to what the German police does.

    • poVoq@slrpnk.net
      0·
      1 个月前

      Feddit.org was not started as an law-skirting activist space with specific op-sec requirements.

      My impression when talking with the admins is that they are quite sympethatic to such efforts, but simply ask that to be done somewhere else where it is safer for everyone involved.

  • Grapho@lemmy.ml
    0·
    1 个月前

    A post about white people doing white people things and banning anyone not in full support of genocide, and even the criticism has to be half about China this and China that.

    Y’all are exactly the type of idiot who sets up the conditions for these ghouls to do another genocide to then go on your merry way to act like the monsters are they before you spread blood libel against somebody else.

    Fuck y’all. Read the fucking room and examine yourself for once.