I was a long time Windows user, starting with XP. I only tried Linux a few years ago, and while I loved it, at the time I had to dual boot for a couple specific Windows only things (VR and flight/racing sim hardware).
A couple months ago though, I got sick of it. I figured if I really wanted to do those things, I could boot up a VM, or just force myself to be patient and wait for a proper Linux solution. So, I wiped all my drives and installed Arch. Around this time, I also got an AMD RX 7600XT, so that was a nice performance boost, plus it waranted a switch to Wayland.
Let me tell you, I have been so pleasantly surprised by basically everything I’ve tried. Cyberpunk 2077 through Heroic Launcher, for example, with 15 odd mods. Runs at a solid 80fps at 1440p on high settings, the only graphical issue I noticed was flickering volumetric clouds. This game ate my old card (the venerable GTX 1080) alive even on Windows.
Just last night, I found my joystick, an old VKB Gladiator + Kosmosima grip, plugged it in and it worked perfectly.
What has really, really impressed me though is VR. I have a Quest 2 that I used to use via Steam link to play my PC wirelessly. Obviously that isn’t an option on Linux (yet) but that’s where ALVR comes in. Sideload the client on the quest, run the streamer on the desktop, start SteamVR, and bam, it works. The first game I tried was Elite Dangerous, one of my all time favourite games and easily my favourite VR epxerience. Now, I won’t go ahead and claim it’s perfect, hence the 99% in the title. After fiddling with the settings and making sure I had hardware encoding/decoding set up right, I had very good clarity, up to 120hz refresh rate, but occasional blockiness and artifacting, especially in heavier graphical scenes, like during docking. However, out in open space, it felt just like the ED I know and love.
At this point, I’m just going to look at fiddling with some settings and hopefully smoothing out the stream, but the fact that I can play my favourite games, with my favourite hardware, with great performance and in VR, and the amount of setup is really comparable to what it is on Windows is just kind of wrinkling my brain. Plus, only a couple months ago, this wasn’t the case. Support for things that were once doomed to be dual boot material for the foreseeable future is coming along rapidly. This is a great time to be a Linux gamer.
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Yeah, a lot of expectations people have around Linux are about a decade old. I think Linux has really improved a lot in the area of gaming over the last few years even.
And as long as Linux keeps being worth supporting I think we’ll see more and more games targeted toward linux.
And as long as Linux keeps being worth supporting I think we’ll see more and more games targeted toward linux.
Valve has cemented this now, their efforts are what has made gaming on Linux viable for anyone.
I agree. The steam deck has been a godsend for Linux gaming.
Gaming on linux is a decades old ongoing effort, there’s plenty of praise to go around, vulkan and winehq, dxvk…
Don’t forget Tuxracer
Only game I know for sure I could install on a toaster and would run at 300fps.
Unless it was one of those netbook desktop things, holy hell those were bad. I managed to get AntiX running pretty well on one, and tuxracer lagged a LOT. Was pretty useful as a cheap thin client though.
the fact that I can play my favourite games, with my favourite hardware … is just kind of wrinkling my brain.
You’re finally streets ahead
I love this reference
And if you have to ask, you’re streets behind.
I switched from Windows to Linux during the whole Vista debacle back in 2008. For basically ten years I was out of the PC gaming scene. I fucking love Proton and what its done for Linux as a gaming platform. Now I play (almost) everything on Linux, no sweat. The only things I ever need my Windows partition for anymore are things with those shitty anticheat platforms that just assume you’re a cheater if you use Linux. Cause, you know, Linux scary.
those shitty anticheat platforms that just assume you’re a cheater if you use Linux. Cause, you know, Linux scary.
To be fair, the people at the cutting edge of modern computing are statistically very likely to be Linux users. Therefore it’s not entirely unreasonable to have some prejudice against Linux users.
But as a sweeping measure these anti-cheat measures are absolutely unacceptable. The only other explanation is that they just don’t want to bother with the market share still being low compared to Windows.
Personally, if a game requires anti-cheat, it’s probably not a game I’d enjoy playing. Not a big fan of competitive gameplay. But for those that are, this needs to stop. Especially with all the new bullshit Microsoft has been pulling in Windows lately.
To be fair, the people at the cutting edge of modern computing are statistically very likely to be Linux users. Therefore it’s not entirely unreasonable to have some prejudice against Linux users.
Can we drop this “linux is hackerman territory for cheats” stereotype?
Most people cheat on windows. Not cause they are technical or knowledgable… but because they have a credit card
cause they buy cheats designed for windows.
The overwhelming majority of people out there cheating are cheating using tools they bought and use on windows.
So if anything, its Windows that should be treated as the pariah dog of hackers. Cause its where the credit swiping script kiddies are.
People buy cheats ?! Is that how this works ? So there are cheat developers making a living off this ?
Yes. Thats why cheaters are so rampant in certain games.
its not because each cheater is a elite linux hackerman, using unique and custom cheats personally created by them.
Its because they are dumb idiots with mommies credit card buying a product that some asshole has made and put up for sale to ruin everyones fun.
Can we drop this “linux is hackerman territory for cheats” stereotype?
I don’t see this as a negative thing and it is absolutely true to some degree. Most of the incredibly talented low-level developers in the world (you know, those that are actually capable of making non-script kiddie hacks) have a tendency towards Linux.
So no, I’m not dropping the “Linux is a sign you might mean business” thing, especially if their idea of a desktop environment is just a collection of terminal windows neatly tiled together. We should be proud of the fact that some the most talented coders in de world choose freedom of software over anything else.
But luckily most of those people focus their efforts on different subjects. So yes, the problem is definitely on Windows with all the 14 year olds buying cheats off the darknet using their mom’s credit card (dramatized for effect).
@KrokanteBamischijf @hperrin But it needs to stop in a way that keeps those competitive games fun…
- Trusted Computing-based solutions
- Don’t tell the game anything-based solutions…
- ??Trusted-Computing requires a more locked down system than any distro provides, and also (effectively) everyone going along with some MS-controlled standards for TPMs and so forth.
Ignorant-Games approaches perform terribly.
What else ya got?
A few options in my personal order of priority:
- allow private servers - you can still have competitive play, just with people you trust to not cheat
- anti-cheat on the server only - would require human moderation as well (users could submit reports, which could be compared to server logs)
- increase cost for cheating - maybe have players ante up, and lose their ante if they’re caught cheating (e.g. pay for game licenses and have the license revoked); to be fair, this would require independent review
@sugar_in_your_tea Private servers exclude MMOs as a class of game. That works well for death-match style (or BG3 style) 4-player games, but doesn’t work for 30-300-3000 people games.
Anti-cheat server-only allows too many cheats. There’s already enough trouble distinguishing someone using wall-hacks from someone with good headphones in a game that does 3d-spacial-sound… trying to do that on the server side … just won’t work. Same applies for other ways of increasing the costs if detected
Private servers exclude MMOs as a class of game
Why? There are some massive Minecraft servers (thousands of players), and Palworld is self-hostable (closer to other MMOs), so I honestly don’t see the issue. You’d have a different set of characters on each server, but that just increases the risk for cheaters who get booted.
wall-hacks
Part of anti-cheat is not sending the data cheaters use to cheat in the first place. A wall hack is possible because the client is aware of what’s beyond the wall, and that doesn’t need to be sent for anything that’s not visible. That increases computation on the server, so games tend to send more game state than is necessary for smoother gameplay.
Same applies for other ways of increasing the costs if detected
There should be a mix of elite players among the “tribunal” for determining whether someone is hacking. Players report other players, and the server should log enough to recreate the play session so moderators can review the gameplay to make a determination. A lot of cheating is pretty obvious to detect algorithmically, so this would be in a “review” scenario where it’s not so cut-and-dry.
But this takes a lot of resources, which cuts into profits, so I think studios tend to just throw on anti-cheat so they can shift blame (hey, anti-cheat didn’t catch it, we’ll forward your report). But I do sincerely believe it’s feasible for serious competitive games where real money is on the line (e.g. tournaments for prize money and whatnot) without clientside anti-cheat. For more casual games, a higher error rate is probably fine.
@sugar_in_your_tea Your response about wall-hacks is my “don’t tell the game anything” comment. It’s really really damn slow. You typically don’t want to do frame-by-frame determination of if an opponent is just in view or not (because that’s a full render), so you send the info to the client once it’s possible… at which point the client knows.
Even if the game isn’t hacked, the video pipeline “knows”, and hacks have moved to be outside of the game space (thus the move to kernel-based)
Yup, “don’t tell the game anything” is slow, I’ll give you that. But anything that exists on the client can be hacked, even on a completely locked down console. People still cheat all the time with anti-cheat enabled, and I don’t expect that to change just because they put it in the kernel.
frame-by-frame determination
A couple thoughts:
- can be predictive - clients already do a ton of prediction, this just moves that to the server
- can run in parallel to normal game update logic
- the server should have the (simplified) geometry data and can do a (relatively) cheap visibility check
The data would need to be sent a few frames ahead of time for performance reasons, so there’s risk there, but if someone can wall-hack within a few frames, that’s a good indicator that they’re cheating anyway. I’m no game dev, so I’m probably missing some significant considerations here, but it seems like this is feasible, just expensive when the alternative is a much less expensive anti-cheat service.
And I agree with your reply, this is a hard problem to solve. I just think game companies are pushing the problem onto anti-cheat devs instead of really trying to solve it themselves in a privacy and security respecting way because it’s cheaper and easier to offload a large share of that liability.
@KrokanteBamischijf @hperrin Protecting code from the computer it runs on is either impossible or really really hard, depending.
https://multicians.org/thvv/mirror/obfreport.pdf
https://www.iacr.org/archive/crypto2001/21390001.pdfStrong moderation? Shadow banning habitual cheaters to cheat leagues?
@A_Random_Idiot That’s basically a form of @sugar_in_your_tea 's suggestion about making cheating more expensive: “We’ll find your cheat program later, and retroactively find that you were cheating and ban you. Well after the match ended and everyone else’s game was ruined”
You are going to always be reactive to cheating.
If you are pro-active, you’ll just make it easier for cheaters to iterate and experiment and find ways around the pro-active… and what happens then? You’re back to reactive. Not to mention, pro-active anti-cheat tends to be rife with false positives, resulting in very public ban waves against innocent people.
It cant be helped, No amount of giving your butthole over to big daddy game company and their rootkits will make a game cheat-free. all they can hope for is to catch the cheaters, drop the hammer on them in bulk, so they struggle and panic to try and find out how it was detected so you can increase their cycle time before they have a new working one out.
@A_Random_Idiot That’s … not entirely wrong, but doing more to raise the barriers higher keeps the game fun longer before the cheaters ruin it.
(Again, … limiting discussion to competitive PvP-style games)
That’s … not entirely wrong, but doing more to raise the barriers higher keeps the game fun longer before the cheaters ruin it.
If you are pro-active, you’ll just make it easier for cheaters to iterate and experiment and find ways around the pro-active… and what happens then? You’re back to reactive
But if youre banning people based on operating system, of what’s now the only viable consumer operating system, youre basically sacrificing 100% of ‘keep the game fun longer’ for those players.
So if that’s the philosophy, it would be wildly counterproductive to even put that on the table.
@KrokanteBamischijf @hperrin (my wife suggested auditing suspected cheats in games like battlefield by forcing them to play in real world paintball tournaments.
I think her experience as a teacher is impacting her suggestions)
Yeah I’m right there with ya, of course it’s the users fault for choosing an alternative OS, it has nothing to do with gaming companies choosing the cheapest, least effective and most invasive client side anti cheat solutions instead of more universal server side ones. Nothing at all.
I kinda get it, there’s a reason games a turning towards P2P architecture instead of the traditional client-server architecture. Servers are expensive and turning the game effectively server-authoritative is even more expensive.
I imagine the cost benefit analysis rarely pays out which is why companies go for the cheaper option.
All it’s missing from me are anti-cheat games and Adobe products.
I’m so sorry you rely on adobe products, that’s horrible
Anti-cheat: shame, but I don’t play them anyways.
Adobe products: I guess it sucks for corporate zombies, but again not giving money to adobe makes me proud.
Who said anything about giving money to Adobe? Yarg.
As a graphic designer, you don’t really have much of a choice, unless you’re independent.
As a graphic designer, you don’t really have much of a choice
I’m sorry for your suffering.
Many games with anti-cheat work, a comprehensive list can be found here: https://areweanticheatyet.com/
Anyway, I wouldn’t install a rootkit “anti-cheat” on a Windows machine under any circumstances, but that’s just me.
One day soon I hope. With Linux getting more market share I hope it gets more support
I was a long time Windows user, starting with XP.
Kind of the same here, except it ended with XP, I never switched to Vista. I started using Windows already with Windows 3.0 in 1991. I’ve been using Linux since 2005, because Ubuntu lifted the Linux experience enough to become my main OS.
Back then games were a huge problem, I’m glad to hear it works so well for you. 👍 😀
Same, but I did use 7 for a bit. I started with Linux in 2006, and I was 80%+ Linux until about 2013, when I switched full-time to Linux (when Steam came to Linux). I remember buying Factorio and Minecraft in Beta because they supported Linux, and I also remember when Humble Bundle was good (lots of great indies with native Linux support).
I’m always excited to see people finding Linux useful these days. There’s no way I’m going back to Windows at this point because it’s just so annoying to get anything done imo.
Yes I too dual booted early on with XP, exactly because gaming was shit on Linux. Then I gamed on Wine for a long while, but Steam really is a godsend for Linux. ;)
I admit I also tried Windows 7, because the desktop went to crap for a while on Linux, when Gnome 2 was deprecated. But there are several good ones now IMO.
Yup. I used Windows because I needed certain Windows programs for work/school. For example, I was required to use Visual Studio, so I developed on Linux than ran in VS to meet t the requirements. Same with other MS-specific tooling, none of which I’ve needed since.
I’m glad too. Not gonna lie I still love XP, I feel like it was the peak of Windows in may ways.
@bigmclargehuge it’s pretty impressive how far along Linux has come. I also feel things mostly just working these days. I am facing some issue with a fingerprint reader on my laptop not being supported, but there are definitely fully compatible fp readers out there, even from the same manufacturer. And there’s general stability, at least as good as on windows and I do say that while tinkering quite a bit.
And for many things AI related, like running models locally, this is almost a Linux first experience. Just the recently was I impressed how easy it was to get local llms to run using ollama, even on my laptop with an Nvidia GPU. Impressive.
I tried LM Studio since AMD advertised it for their GPUs. Once ROCm was installed my GPU was detected and I could use LLMs on that rather than on the CPU. I struggled to get it to work on Windows even when LM Studio was trying to do everything to get it to work.
Interesting that ALVR works on Wayland. Because regular SteamVR seems to be borked on Wayland ever since the SteamVR 2.0 update :(
I’ve actually never tried on X11. I will admit, using VR seems to cause some issues with the rest of my desktop (Plasma ocassionally needs to be reloaded). However in the grand scheme, I can get past that for now considering it doesn’t cause any gameplay issues.
Valve did say that they’d be improving SteamVR on Linux quite a while ago, it’s just going to take awhile because it not their main priority atm.
I finally have Windows banished to a VM, only to be awoken for the 3 times a year I need a desktop version of PowerPoint.
I’m with you. 99% of the way there.
Have you considered any of the PowerPoint alternatives?
Windows XP and 7 got a special place on my heart, but once i get a PC, I’m moving to Linux Mint
Honestly I’d still use XP if more programs supported it. As i said to another user here, it was Windows at its peak. It created the basic layout and feature set that modern Windows still uses, but lacks all the bloat and ads.
Can’t recommend XP knowing it’s vulnerable
Fair enough. Not really speaking to its tech specs, mainly just how nice it was to use compared to modern windows
I can understand, but still, it’s not wprth it using windows XP unless you’re using a VM for playing retro games offline
Same. A friendly poster recommended Mint and I’m loving it! The fact that it automatically walks you through the dual boot set up was exactly what I wanted.
Just FYI, bazzite is amazing. It’s made for gaming, and it. Just. Works.
Been trying to get my Vive working on ubuntu on a lenovo gaming laptop, saved this to try out next
I just wish someone could have a walkthrough guide on how to get the games (and launchers) to work for me like they do for you. Every time something jams up and I have to reinstall until I shrug and put windows back on.
Trial and error, lots of reading ProtonDB, wikis, etc. I only just recently got a decent handle on how to properly use wine prefixes to get mods and things working.
In general, use Steam when you can, then use Heroic for non Steam games. Lutris is very powerful and super useful for games that aren’t installed from a larger distributor, ie from a CD or direct from the devs, but I find the UI can be a bit spartan. Steam and Heroic have fewer features but are way more user friendly.
Good luck. It can definitely be frustrating but remember that you have access to tons of resources and an excellent community if you encounter issues.
ProtonDB usually has pretty good information on launcher settings for games. I’ve found several good walkthroughs on game forums, as well, like on Steam community forums or the game’s own website.
What games are giving you trouble and where are you looking for walkthroughs? And what are you looking for in the walkthrough?
Been traditionally trying to use Linux Mint but am at my wits end so I’m willing to try anything. As far as what I’m looking for, just step by step to get Steam and Heroic installed and working. Any game I’ve found that has a launcher is simply a no go, never works.
Now we’ve got flatpaks out and people swear by them but I usually get something working one day and the next it quits. I admit it, I need more experience at this; but I can’t quit Windows until I understand what the hell is going wrong and how to fix it.
Linux Mint can be used almost entirely from GUI, so you should be able to install both Steam and Heroic through the software “store”.
Here are two guides specific to installing Steam on Linux Mint.
I don’t know what games you are playing, and I only used Mint for a short time before moving to other diatros, but I remember it being pretty plug-and-play for most things. I admit I was mostly playing through Steam and a few applications through Lutris (mostly FFXIV), using a Wine wrapper to use the official launcher.
For Steam, the Steam launcher will handle most of the game-specific launchers for you. For Lutris, make sure you open Lutris and update it after installing it and before trying to add any games to it. I don’t have any experience with Heroic (or with Windows version of Epic Launcher either).
It’s really easy, just install steam or lutris. However, some games might have their own specific issues when running under proton/wine under specific hardware configuration. If this is what happened to you, I’m afraid there might not be an easy way outside of putting some elbow grease to start tinkering with the config, or ask for help in linux gaming community.
Glad ALVR worked for you on Wayland. It never did for me but it’s been a while. All Linux needs next is support from Adobe and AutoCAD and it’ll be 100% for most people
Photoshop too, unfortunately
I know, I know. But what I hear from Photoshop editors, this is one area where Linux still is the alternative as the Foss software here is still of lesser quality than Photoshop. Or has that changed semi recently?
There’s nothing quite like Photoshop, but Photopea helps bridge that gap. Soon™ Gimp 3.0 will be out which will help too. Depending on your needs, Krita is very high quality and up there with professional paint applications. Then there’s a bunch of other tools that fill in more specialized needs here and there. It’s more so a matter of combining & linking the alternatives together to cover your needs best you can than relying on one end all be all application.
That’s part of Adobe so ye
Dumbass, its not for Linux to support Adobe and AutoCad. Its for those companies to port their programs.
If AMD wasn’t already cheering to Valve, they have to be at this point
i only switched over quite recently (a few years ago)
i swear there has been significant improvements in wifi, bluetooth, gpu support, gaming over the last 10 years that made me think it was now good enough
also there was areas where linux was outdoing windows for quite some time; system wide audio equalizer, customization generally, home services and self hosting, development tools
Linux audio is really under appreciated. I’m one of the nutjobs that still uses a PCI sound card and I’ve never had to install a third party driver. I can manually adjust the output and EQ for every port, disable or enable them on the fly, etc. The only thing I’m missing is hardware EAX support for older games but I’ve kind of accepted that’s just a dragon I’ll always be chasing.
What EQ do you use? I’ve been using Easy Effects for a while, but have been plagued by crackling and stereo sound only playing on one ear lately.
Give alsaequal a try. I actually haven’t fiddled with it a whole lot so I can’t vouch too much but it seems worth a shot.
This somehow reminds me of my first Ubuntu installation (Dapper Drake). One of my friends gave me a PCI TV Tuner card. They couldn’t get it to work for some reason, drivers that wouldn’t install or something. I got the box and the CD 💿 (drivers for Windows) too. The card worked out-of-the-box after first boot. I only had to install some frontend from the default repo to use it for recording. Amazing times!
so true and it’s not just equalizers, it’s compressors and all the other tools for solving audio problems
Noice. Still to chicken too go full into the deep end of the pool. lemmy posts have been slowing talking me into it more and more!
Many hardware manufacturers unfortunately require windows for firmware updates. Fwupd isn’t nearly used enough unfortunately
Most (all?) motherboard vendors have a separate download you can put on a USB to load directly. Other hardware may have something similar.
Indeed, motherboards are usually ok. I’ve had to switch to windows for SSDs a few times, as well as a monitor and various peripherals
dont buy them? Or are you their bitch?
