For those unfamiliar, GrapheneOS is a privacy and security enhanced custom ROM endorsed by Snowden. Despite these big names, plenty of people give it backlash
Even @TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml gives it backlash despite being a moderator of Lemmy’s biggest privacy community. A quote here: “grapheneOS trolls are downvoting every single post and comment of mine, and committing vote manipulation on Lemmy. They are using 5-6 accounts.” That was in response to downvotes on a comment posted in the c/WorldNews community, which is entirely unrelated to technology.
One of the reasons is that GrapheneOS can only be installed on Google Pixels due to security compatibility, which makes complete sense considering Android should be most compatible with Google’s own devices. GrapheneOS even lists the exact reasons they chose Pixels, and encourage people to step up and manufacture a different supported device.
One year ago, Louis Rossmann posted this video outlining his reasons for deleting GrapheneOS. Mainly, he had multiple bad experiences with Daniel Micay (the founder and main developer of GrapheneOS) which put his distrust in the GrapheneOS project. Since then, he has stepped down and will no longer be actively contributing to the project.
So, I am here to learn why exactly people still do not like GrapheneOS.
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I do not like Graphene os as it is a vessel for proprietary software and anticonsumer practices. There are plenty of better options. For instance, Lineage OS runs on a large number of phones and is better in many ways.
Graphene OS also is kind of what I dislike about the cyber security industry. Many “cyber” people are filled with arrogance and overconfidence
Lineage OS is a shitshow when it comes to privacy and security
(no locked bootloader, using Google DNS by default)
From what I understand, GrapheneOS has the goals of bejng the best of the best when it comes to Android security.
There is and always will be CalyxOS or DivestOS for a wider range of devices (both are still much better than the likes of LineageOS and Pixelexperience)
It is in fact not a shitshow. Stop feeding fear. There are real potential concerns but Lineage OS does a great job of being a middle ground that allows for lots of tweaks and customization
Don’t reply to him. He’s just another marketing agent for google trying to paint other ROMs as inferior. All an elaborate marketing strategy for selling phones.
I literally mentioned Calyx and Divest OS as alternatives which support non-google devices
also how is buying a used Pixel and degoogling it to the max with GrapheneOS (with reasonable compromises like optional sandboxed GMS) helping Google?
Didn’t know that cutting their mal-/spyware out, and trying to avoid them and their services wherever possible actually helped them, silly me 🤷♀️
(I assume this to be the standard way for most ppl and plan on doing that as well once my current Huawei phone breaks)please learn to read before insulting other ppl with your less-than-a-day-old account lol
My man, Lineage OS isn’t google. All I’m saying is that Graphene isn’t the only option.
Clearly a woman. “My lady” would’ve been more appropriate. Please don’t be rude
It is completely subjective and depends on your threat model
FYI- Its not a ROM.
@Charger8232 The main dev is definitely still there it seems, (and still making claims) more over the harassment comes from all the devs (and by consequence, users)
@Charger8232 It makes it worse because they keep trying to make points and compare with others, like, OK, WE GET IT. Go on, continue fueling hate and then claim to be the victim.
@Charger8232 I shouldn’t even say anything but it’s too much.
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I usually buy pixels used for $200, where are you getting 6/7 phones for that price?
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Honestly, I think you summed up the biggest issues. As much as I look forward to getting a Pixel for my next phone solely for GrapheneOS, it’s understandable for people looking to degoogle to not want to buy a Google phone. The developer I think is the bigger issue. Despite having since stepped down, his behavior went unchecked for long enough to make quite a bad reputation and leave a bad taste in a lot of people’s mouths. While recovering from that will simply take time, I have wondered why they haven’t taken the opportunity to come out with a Graphene-lite for non-Pixels. Something like CarbonOS as secure as possible sans Google hardware. Could easily overtake Calyx/Lineage.
The problematic dev never stepped down they still pull the same crazy shenanigans like banning anyone he disagrees with.
I recommend people look at DivestOS, and will probably go this myself in the near future
DivestOS is a security hardened version of Lineage and supports Bootloader relocking ans verified boot for at least several phones.
the develop is also a very cool guy, very intelligent and does not sperg out like an autist like Micay
I have wondered why they haven’t taken the opportunity to come out with a Graphene-lite for non-Pixels
The issue I see is simply a lack of developers to do so. Trying to split the team between two mostly different projects would most likely cripple both.
I think the issue is Play Integrity/SafetyNet. If you can’t lock the bootloader, you can’t get it without using illegal hacks. GrapheneOS only passes Basic Integrity but that’s just details
They tell you why right on their website. They dev for Pixels because it’s a stable platform with a predictable future.
If you’re not going to listen to the devs, I don’t know what to say.
@Charger8232 @DARbarian I don’t think that’s it, it’s more that they’re a project where you’re expected to buy a device for it, in this case a Pixel.
Pixels have amazing security features and they don’t want to lose that.
Personally is due to the toxicity of their dev and socials team, basically if you ask something, you are wrong and they are right, if you recommend other options, you are wrong and they are right. They have been publicly raging war against cybersecurity content creators that dare question some decisions or do honest reviews (OS Is good but has it’s but scenarios) … Once they get better with their PR relationships most of the hate will go away.
I’ve been using grapheneOS and never knew the toxicity. Crazy.
Groups like this need to understand that their PR would do better if they said nothing at all rather than just being an asshole.
See also: CEO of Kagi search who thinks he can browbeat people into agreeing with him. It makes me never want to use Kagi.
Just shut up and let your fucking products speak for themselves. The more you rant about your philosophy to others, the less they actually want to use your products.
It was never so much about the hate for GOS as it was for Daniel. Daniel is a absolute genius but has some mental and paranoid issues. Which hurt GOS reputation in the proces, Dont get me wrong I do not hate the guy or GOS at all but I do agree Daniel has some serious issues.
I like grapheneos the product.
The staff is super abrasive and they constantly attack other privacy projects. See the recent attacks on Jonah from privacy guides, or the attacks on calyx, or the bs with rossman that forced micay out of the spotlight.
They need to hire an outside professional to manage their PR. The way they communicate is their biggest flaw.
There are no “attacks”. Members of GrapheneOS usually are just responding to people attacking them. You mention the recent “attacks” well Jonah was using their forum to say false things about GrapheneOS and how they’re marketing themselves to criminals. It’s a ridiculous claim. GrapheneOS focuses on improving the OS’s security and privacy and if companies can just hack the phone then GrapheneOS isn’t very secure is it? But recent news has shown that at least Cellebrite cannot get into a GrapheneOS phone. Isn’t that a good thing?
Oh, btw, the only reason GrapheneOS was talking about this stuff in the first place was because another person hostile to the project was posting completely false claims on Reddit that forensics companies could hack GrapheneOS. They conveniently left out the fact that CONSENT based extraction means giving away your PIN/password first.
So, what you’re seeing is project members defending the project from people making false claims. One leads to another. All they do is try to damage GrapheneOS’s reputation because that’s easier than improving their own products.
They do?
I dunno, maybe ask the person that says they hate it?
Your title is a sophist argument tactic called “begging the question”.
Bruh he’s literally asking the question
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It’s very close to begging the question, though. It really depends on OP’s actual intent, which is hard to determine through text. But it does seem like it could have a, “Those of you who still hate GrapheneOS, why are you wrong?” tone to it.
Edit: Reading through OP’s comments, they do sound genuine to me, I’m mostly just explaining why someone might mistake the post for begging the question.
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Begging the question is a logical fallacy that assumes the conclusion within the premise. If OP was not being genuine, then the faulty conclusion would be “there are no good reasons to dislike GrapheneOS, therefore why do people dislike GrapheneOS?”
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Maybe I have the wrong fallacy, or I’m just really stretching on this one.
This was my line of thinking:
- premise = there are no valid reasons to dislike X
- conclusion = people who dislike X don’t have any valid reasons
Well, since neither of you seems to want to post references, I’ll add a link.
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I know this is somewhat controversial but I agree with this when it comes to FOSS software. Proprietary is a different story. But for foss software, the developer literally gains nothing from you using their software. So if the software is good and works to your benefit, why not use it? Yea okay the developer is a POS but how does that affect the product? And you using GrapheneOS does not mean you are supporting the developer as again, this is a FOSS product, you are not paying them with money or data or code.
if the software is good and works to your benefit, why not use it?
sometimes people just don’t feel comfortable using work of someone who opposes their rights. even just using the product gives the creator more exposure, recognition, possible funding in the future if it gets big enough, and so on. so, if the creator is openly transphobic, for example, trans folks won’t want to use the product, and doubly so when the community around the product is toxic, too. they’re voting with their feet.
That is understandable, but no need to be going out and attacking people who recommend GrapheneOS like the mod did. It would be much better if he just points out the major flaws of the GrapheneOS community the same way that Techlore and Louis Rossmann did, rather than dogging on anyone and everyone who recommends an otherwise great operating system.
Lol, this same mod banned me for a few days from this community because I was trying to tell him that he’s just making shit up about GrapheneOS
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“grapheneOS trolls are downvoting every single post and comment of mine, and committing vote manipulation on Lemmy. They are using 5-6 accounts.”
Is that really criticism of graphene os? or is it complaining about specific users who like graphene os?
It stems from a blind hatred for GrapheneOS and its users as a whole.
I think this is one of those situations where someone is downvoted and they can’t fathom why (because their opinion being unpopular is not possible) so it MUST be something they literally just manufactured in their head.
Why are y’all spamming this Rossman guy suddenly? I had never heard of him before two days ago, and now I’ve seen posts about him every single day.
Seems like a bro-y tech dude. He promotes Brave and references sexual assault when talking about the behavior of software vendors with their customers. Honestly he gives me kind of a shady vibe on top of that.
So like, why is Lemmy suddenly full of his fans? What’s going on?
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Yeah, that’s the bit that gave me the bro-y vibe, honestly. That and Brave. Also like, not that it’s necessarily a bad thing that I can see his muscle veins through his shirt, but that’s often a component of that particular corner of Joe Rogan-NFT-Bitcoin-Tesla.
But yeah, that makes sense. It definitely feels very sudden and artificial, which makes me wary.
Also like, not that it’s necessarily a bad thing that I can see his muscle veins through his shirt, but that’s often a component of that particular corner of Joe Rogan-NFT-Bitcoin-Tesla.
This is such a strange take. Presumably he works out, as do many other people around the world who have absolutely zero connection to “bro-y tech”. I don’t understand why you would let something so irrelevant affect your judgement of a person you clearly know nothing about. It’s almost like some kind of reverse fat-shaming.
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Yeah, although I don’t want to assume that person’s intentions or appearance. Speaking more broadly I do agree that there is this sort of counter-movement happening in the online space where people who are insecure about their own body are hitting out more and more at those who have clearly put more time and effort into maintaining conventional beauty standards. Maybe this has been driven by social media absolutely blasting society with images of beautiful people 24/7; the insecure among us assume those who are fit or work out have some kind of ulterior motive or character flaw, like we see with the narcissistic influencer culture, as a way of coping with their mounting insecurity.
Litterally one of the most famous tech guy on the web and one of the most influential voice of the “repair yourself” movement, on the internet for years
I wanted to love it but my bank’s development team is dumb and won’t run on Graphene, sending me back to the stock Pixel image.
Unsure if this is a reason to hate Graphene OS. But some people probably do because App X wont run.
