How about Lemmy.World?
This is not particularly surprising. Lemmy was started as an anti-corporate project by leftists after /r/chapotraphouse got quarantined and later banned (subreddit for the most popular podcast and most donated patreon at the time), with the explicit goal of preventing corporate control from being able to silence leftists when they’re blasting off. CTH was skyrocketing in subscribers at the time it was quarantined on August 8th 2019, and when even quarantining didn’t stop its growth or slow down its activity afterwards Reddit pulled the plug under the excuse it promoted violence, but the only particularly edgy thing ever said there was “slave owners should be killed” and support for John Brown. This evolved post-ban into the assessment that Spez banned it because he wants to own slaves.
When that happened there was a massive shift in the leftist parts of reddit as we very quickly realised we’d be targeted if reddit ever deemed us to be too successful, and projects like Lemmy began in reaction. CTH’s community in fact moved to Lemmy 3 years ago, and resides on Hexbear.net but has not yet joined the rest of federated lemmy due to technical issues (it used to be a fork with a different front end).
Given lemmy’s specific anti-corporate origins seeing Lemmy.ml do this should surprise nobody. It’s the correct move anyway.
Always love to hear the deep lore. Lemmy’s early development makes a lot more sense now. Good on them(you) to leave everything open and learn from Reddit’s mistakes.
Still, free and open has a limit. No Facebook and no Nazis. That’s just common sense everyone used to have.
The paradox of tolerance is real, and a particularly thorny issue for social networks.
Philosophies that promote intolerance can not be tolerated by tolerant communities.
What happens is the definition of nazi changes to incorporate anyone who disagrees with you.
I have this theory that people who complain about everyone being called nazis, have themselves been called a nazi.
Why do people call you a nazi, hmm?
That’s literally never happened, so I can’t answer. I’m basically a Marxist, though I’m not especially attached to that as an identity.
Maybe don’t parrot nazi talking points then
I’m also a vegetarian, does that make me Hitler? Temper your hysteria.
I’ve made you aware that claiming the word “nazi” doesn’t mean anything anymore is a thing nazis do.
Do with that what you will.
Any form of ultranationalist is a nazi. Any questions?
No, but you sound like Jeff Tiedrich 😂
I’m not american, no idea who he is. Google says some musician?
I just know him as the guy who says “any fucking questions” on Twitter, I’m not American either.
Ahh gotcha. I meant it though it wasn’t rhetorical, I will answer questions.
So you admit that Antifa are as Nazis like Maga are? Or are rightoids worse for some arbitrary reason again?
Antifa are not ultranationalists. The vast majority are anarchists and communists, which are internationalist ideologies. Literally the polar opposite.
You could call them an authoritarian paramilitary group, but they’re not nazis. That doesn’t automatically make them good, it’s just that nazism is a specific political ideology.
Half of them are anarchists, calling them authoritarian is a grandpa’s facebook-tier understanding of the situation
I’ve yet to meet an anarchist following anything like a coherent ideology in that respect. They all seem very eager to impose themselves on others. I suppose one guy took a more academic position, but still seemed to idolise violence. Maybe the authority is decentralised, but frequently wielded as explicit force. Not far from libertarianism in that regard. Doesn’t appeal.
What a pointless question though. Obviously in the context ‘Nazi’ means what it means NOW.
‘Peadophiles should be locked up’ ‘ah but what if the definition of Peadophile changes to incorporate anyone who has sex??’
When I asked that I ended up with more than -100 and comments like “oh so you defend them”.
“I like waffles.”
“Oh, so you hate pancakes!”
Yes, in fact I’m calling for the centrally-organised, systematic eradication of pancakes from the breakfast menu. That’s what I mean when I say I like waffles.
The fact that you people can’t see how distasteful it is to compare the fucking Nazis to breakfast foods in a cute way, says everything anyone needs to know about you.
Comparing mere assholes to Nazis is antisemitic, much less comparing anyone who disagrees with you to Nazis.
You’re young, you’ll weather with time. We’re all just trying to get along.
Isn’t “sneed” mostly a 4chan joke these days? Seeing it in someone’s username always makes me squint
No idea, I don’t use 4chan. It can produce funny content, but I don’t think I could stand to wade through the shit. It’s a legacy username, it’s mine and I cherish it.
Yes, it didn’t take long for somebody to accuse me of being a literal nazi. Those are odd people, though. Don’t tend to meet them in the real world, only on the internet.
An actual “called it” moment.
Wasn’t that the time Spez got caught editing comments from users?
Naw that was way sooner, over on the_donald. That subreddit also got banned at the same time as CTH but had been dead for months by that point because they all moved to [DONOTVISIT]thedonald . win(now a virus site) followed by patriots.win. It was basically their way of softening the CTH shit and trying to make it less of an obvious attack on the leftist (non liberal) spaces of reddit. Nobody fell for it.
Not leftists, Stalinists; The sort of people who end up killing all the other leftists any chance they think they might be close to taking power.
Mate I do not give a flying fuck what any of these people with zero power are. I care about actually achieving shit. Fortunately I live in the UK where this bizarre sectarianism has absolutely no presence, thank fuck for that.
If you lived in the UK you’d be against the head of the RMT union currently striking the UK railroads, who publicly calls James Connolly his political hero and is an obvious marxist-leninist. You’d be against Jeremy Corbyn, because he defends the Soviet Union and always has, he also promotes the Black Panthers who defended north korea (if you look in the corner of the video around 2:00 there’s even a cute little soviet cccp statue). You’d be against Diane Abbott, because she’s publicly defended Mao on national television. You’d probably find something to be against John Mcdonnell who has said his job is to overthrow capitalism on the BBC, probably because he’s quoted Mao and read his little red book in parliament?
My point here is that you’ve got to get a grip. We don’t do this bizarre shit over in the UK because there’s literally no point, there is no communist revolution just around the corner, the conditions do not exist for it. What matters is what we can achieve RIGHT NOW, when a revolution is actually on the cards then we can decide what that revolution should actually fucking look like. In the meantime these people are all mild lukewarm elected MPs as socdems that just want to give people more welfare and improve basic living standards, but you would call them evil tankies for any of these things.
If you don’t build at least SOME power now you will have absolutely none when the conditions deteriorate enough for a real revolution, and if that is the case it will be fascism that wins, not any sect of the absolutely non-existent left in your country.
What you’re viewing above is how radical you need to be just to establish and maintain lukewarm european welfare and social safety nets. Get that into your head and you might actually stop the aussie government dumping migrants into concentration camps and help improve people’s lives for fuck’s sake. You should know better than this anyway, half the union leadership of australia are marxist-leninists, and the other half are trots. What union are you in? I’ll tell you whether you need to throw your union leader under the bus for some fucking do-nothing liberal because of your sectarianism obsession. Are you even in one?
Are you saying the UK, you don’t have leftist factionalism? Fucking get off it mate.
Not really among the actual leftists. There is a conflict between the neoliberal starmerites who fake being left and the actual leftists that he has been purging so hard it puts stalin to shame, there is barely any fighting among the actual UK left because we do not give a fuck. I don’t fucking care what the person next to me on the roof of an Israeli weapons factory believes, I care that he’s going to have my back when the cops show up. I do not care what the person next to me on the picket line believes, I care that they’re fucking there. If you said this shit in person at an event you’d get knocked out or if you’re lucky sidelined and ostracised by just about every group in the left for being a wrecker whose goal is clearly not to help but to divide.
Very very rarely there is some extremely cringe jabs between the trots and the MLs, but not particularly often because there’s no fucking point. The anarchists are ironically the least sectarian, simply caring that people show up when the hunt sabos need it because there’s fuck all people in the countryside as it is to be picky about what kind of leftist someone is. Everyone shows up for everyone’s events, because having a left is far more fucking important than arguing over 100 year old cringe while workers lives are being made worse NOW. All you’re doing with this shit is helping capitalists by weakening leftists.
And you didn’t answer my question about what union you’re in?
I agree with a lot of your points about pragmatism but there absolutely is factionalism on the left in the UK, unless (as it looks like you are doing) you say some of them are not actually leftist and therefore the remaining group is small enough that it’s not arguing with itself.
The right are also split but in normal times they are better at keeping the worst of it behind closed doors and rallying around the leader when the dust settles. Lack of message discipline is what kills the left at the ballot box. New Labour were good at it and they won; Starmer is trying to do the same - sensible tactic in my opinion.
The neoliberals are not actually leftist. This is a 100% fact, if you are arguing that the capitalists are leftists then you are also not a leftist. They are centre right. The transphobic neoliberals and privatizers trying to destroy the nhs and build a “free and open” energy market for the sake of preventing our attempts at nationalisation can eat my ass, so can their by-association transphobic mysogynistic supporters. You can get to fuck with your “yeah they’re actually toooootally leftists dude belieeeeeve me” bullcrap. It is unbelievable that you would mention New Labour under Tony Blair, a party that killed 2 million people and exploited the fuck out of the middle east and continue to pretend that you are left wing, you are not, you are an imperialist, capitalist neoliberal.
It is blatantly clear why you didn’t answer the question about what union you’re in and did not cite any organising, you don’t do any for the left and you’ve made that abundantly clear to anyone that knows these parties and groups. The only reason you have any votes at all is because the majority of people here are americans and they have absolutely no fucking idea what we’re talking about now.
All they need to know is that you support neoliberals. The crowd here definitely knows neoliberalism isn’t leftist.
No surprises that this conversation started off with you trying to discredit me by screeching “tankie”, you knew that if you made it clear what your actual political affiliations are and made a real political argument it would be unpopular.
I’m a different user to the guy you were originally having a conversation with.
No need to get so personal!
Mate, I am on the UK left. There’s ridiculous factionalism.
Neoliberals aren’t left.
I’m not neoliberal.
You have to understand that under a Presidential system we do not have the political capability of forming a Marxist-Leninist or Anarchist party. We have two parties and the first-past-the-post system guarantees that only two parties will ever be politically relevant.
As a result, it is political poison for left-leaning folks to associate with Marxist-Leninists. That isn’t a popular political ideology here and we are not going to win elections with that label.
Bernie made some progress on that front, but in the USA our coalition calls themselves Progressives and shies away from the scary communist and ML labels. But the (few) people who would call themselves that are still in the tent, we just prefer that they not poison the messaging with unhelpful, unelectable rhetoric.
What are you on about there are multiple growing ML parties in the US. PSL does excellent work.
You’re obsessed with electoralism, you have no understanding that the goal of MLs has literally nothing to do with electoralism. You can not establish socialism by winning elections, it has not happened and it will never happen. The furthest left possible through electoralism is socdem shit and the american ruling class already proved they won’t even allow that anymore.
All you can think of is elections and whether it’s possible to win percentages. Your brain is goo. You’re completely stuck in the mindset of american civil religion, believing only in institutional paths for anything in everything. This is an uneducated mindset to politics. The biggest gains are always won in the streets. What’s wild about this is that americans have the civil rights movements and have watched lgbt people change things in the last 50 years entirely through actions in the streets and still have no idea what politics means outside of electoralism. It’s like a country of children.
You realize things in the UK aren’t that bad, right? Like we have it way better than America. Nobody I know is seriously struggling. We luckily still have free healthcare and a social safety net. I hate to say it but you’re screaming over a much better situation than lots of countries are dealing with.
Even those remotely close to struggling don’t blame capitalism and are actually right wing or centrists. At least this is what I have seen personally. It’s not like these people are transphobic or racist either.
It’s people like you guys that scream endlessly that are part of the problem. You’re never going to convince anyone who doesn’t already support the cause like that.
We also know the shit show that happened in Russia the failed ML revolution there, and basically everywhere else that tried it. Backing ML is getting you nowhere fast. Anarchists have more luck these days.
I think it’s also worthwhile to point out that striking in the UK does almost nothing. This is partially because people don’t strike at the same time. If they did it would be utter chaos. Things might even change.
It’s also true that lots of strikes are not skilled labour. We all know jobs like bus driver are not paid very much, yet people complain anyway, and I can’t help but think: you knew exactly what kind of job you were getting into. I sort of know better because bus drivers are an essential function regardless of what you think of them, so they should be paid fairly. Lots of people won’t think like this though. It’s also dead easy to replace unskilled labourers so scabs are always going to be a problem.
Also even the conservatives come up with schemes to help the people that are public spending heavy. Examples include furlough, eat out to help out, and the £2 bus faires that are happening right now. They aren’t neoliberal at all. Schemes like that are not true right wing anymore than labour is true left wing in this country.
You realize things in the UK aren’t that bad, right? Like we have it way better than America. Nobody I know is seriously struggling. We luckily still have free healthcare and a social safety net. I hate to say it but you’re screaming over a much better situation than lots of countries are dealing with.
You are either taking the piss or you are completely and utterly sheltered in your middle class bubble.
4.2million children live in poverty, out of 12.7million total. This amounts to one third of children in poverty. The NHS is literally falling apart at the seams, my family works in the NHS, it has been strangled to death. A lot of it has been stealthily privatised and the rest is just being intentionally ruined. It’s on its last legs and is barely providing essential care.
Even those remotely close to struggling don’t blame capitalism and are actually right wing or centrists. At least this is what I have seen personally. It’s not like these people are transphobic or racist either.
This is factually incorrect. Low income votes go left while high income votes go right. There was a blip created by brexit where this was not the case because everything became the single issue of brexit. Low income voters were convinced that voting for brexit would improve their conditions (they were lied to successfully) and incorrectly voting against their best interests. This however is now returning to left, although with Starmer at the helm and people outside of the politically engage the vast majority of the country has no idea what a slime he truly is. Backed by the media who want to see the real left fucked over as well, he’ll likely do alright.
Backing ML is getting you nowhere fast. Anarchists have more luck these days.
Where exactly? Show me the successful anarchists?
It’s also true that lots of strikes are not skilled labour. We all know jobs like bus driver are not paid very much, yet people complain anyway, and I can’t help but think: you knew exactly what kind of job you were getting into.
Unskilled labour is a myth used to suppress wages. I honestly can’t believe you’re spouting this while claiming to be left wing at all.
Also even the conservatives come up with schemes to help the people that are public spending heavy. Examples include furlough, eat out to help out, and the £2 bus faires that are happening right now. They aren’t neoliberal at all. Schemes like that are not true right wing anymore than labour is true left wing in this country.
Furlough was an economic necessity. Eat out to help out is literally just a business promotion and has fuck all to do with helping the population it’s about business owners, literally their target audience.
the £2 bus faires that are happening right now
While much of the world is making buses 100% free.
And once again, this has nothing to do with helping people and is actually about helping businesses.
I agree about the state of the NHS. The fact is though we still have an NHS, America never had one. Lots of countries don’t have healthcare either.
How exactly is unskilled labour a myth? Maybe I should use the term less skilled or just easily replaceable since it’s not 100% unskilled? Either way the result is the same: some labour takes way more time and training than other forms of labour. I don’t think you can complain when a scientist or doctor that spent 7+ years at University while not getting paid gets a higher salary at the end. If you think this is a radical idea I really don’t know what to tell you. I don’t think anybody should be on poverty wages.
This is factually incorrect. Low income votes go left while high income votes go right. There was a blip created by brexit where this was not the case because everything became the single issue of brexit.
I am reporting what I have seen amoung students rather than the general population. The ones who have already been in work or are having to work hard to support themselves while studying are more centrist or right wing.
4.2million children live in poverty, out of 12.7million total.
By third world country standards they are probably rich. Poverty is very much relative. Some people make less in a day than minimum wage in this country for an hour. It’s still not a good thing by any means, but that’s sadly the reality. I don’t think a socialist revolution is going to guarantee everybody has enough food, clothes, and other resources. A lot of people would inevitably end up poorer than to start with, at least for the foreseeable future.
You know it’s a proper leftist you are arguing with when each reply is 10 times the length as the thing they are responding to.
It’s when things are multiple quotes deep and quotes are getting […] snipped that it’s time to logoff.
That tends to happen when one side knows a lot more than the other side in a conversation
Nah that’s when you know they’re terminally online and have too much time on their hands.
Or they type fast and have a lot to say /shrug
They don’t endulge the crimes, none of them do.
And they don’t seek power, if they did, they wouldn’t be working on Lemmy for less than 1K USD a month 😒.
Do they denounce the crimes?
Edit: The silence is deafening.
Yes, most of them do.
But, none of you ever visit that place or engange in conversation, so you wouldn’t know 🤷.
Well that’s good news at least. Still dosen’t make sense why you would support a guy that killed Anarchist and Marxist comrades just because they disagreed with him
Not saying it makes sense, I don’t agree with some of them either, but most of them are a really great crowd, not to mention very well read/informed and educated… you basically can’t win in a debate with most of them.
Lemmy.world needs to follow
Completely agree - If lemmy.world doesn’t block very shortly I will move to a different instance.
https://fedipact.online/ is a list of instances that have pledged to preemptively block Threads. Includes my own instance (lemmy.name) among many others.
If lemmy.world doesn’t block very shortly I will move to a different instance.
They won’t. At least not shortly because Threads doesn’t even support ActivityPub, yet, and they want to wait and see according to a post on Mastodon. 👋
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If they don’t, I’m out
I mean, that’s how federation ought to work right?
Though it’s a bit of a shame that moving user accounts doesn’t really seem to be a thing yet.
Has anyone heard any comments from them on this? Reconsidering my choice of instance unless they block threads.
100%
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If people want to be on q duck platform they can join threads I joined lemmy to escape reddit not move to a zuck hell hole
You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
Fantastic news! Can we please do the same on lemmy.world? Please?
Yes please! No more power to evil corporations. I don’t want my server to add interaction to them and help drive their agenda.
Didn’t lemmy.world already block threads? I could swear I saw this post a while ago.
I don’t think they have yet. @ruud@lemmy.world
can check here https://lemmy.world/instances
It’s not federated or blocked yet. It’s not showing up yet
I was planning to start a petition post, but wasn’t sure where would be the right place to post it.
Edit: Someone did already! https://lemmy.world/post/1125293
I clicked this link in the Jerboa app and it opened into my browser where I wasn’t signed in. Is it not possible yet to have lemmy links automatically open into the Jerboa app or is there a setting somewhere that I am missing?
Try the app “Connect for Lemmy”. Links works great in here.
Great, will do, thanks so much!
No worries.
I keep switching between apps, trying to find the right one.
I was using Boost for many years, so I’m looking forward to seeing the new Lemmy client released. Until then, I guess I’ll keep jumping around a bit.
Me too, I’ve been on reddit for over a decade. I briefly tried a few of the open source alternatives, but was 98% Boost for as long as I can remember. I don’t know what I was using before Boost came along.
Not sure. I wasn’t able to pull the link to a post inside Jarboa, and ended up opening the thread in browser, getting the link there, then making reply also via browser.
Maybe there is a better syntax for internal Lemmy links, other than https?
Admins already said they fully support integration with threads. I’m going to move instances and my Patreon.
Oh no :( I missed that, did they say why?
Basically they said “we want to see how bad it is first then decide.”
It would be even greater if lemmy.world does it ;)
Make a poll, let the admins realize that their users don’t want to federate with Meta.
We did yesterday, right?
Link?
I hope we do. And if we don’t, I hope other instances block us.
mastodon.world has decided not to, so I don’t think we will.
Thats very sad for the fediverse. RIP lemmy and mastodon.world.
lemmy.world and everyone should as well
I did yesterday or so.
Back when I was a kid and got my first computer, I was mostly offline except for the occasional dial-up session. I didn’t have much to do on the internet anyway and it was quite expensive. I remember being amazed the first time I have set up to meet a friend over ICQ, rather than a phone call, of being able to communicate with other computers from mine. It didn’t matter whether these computers were at a neighbors’ house, a different city or entirely different country. I was looking forward to the internet giving us ways to connect like never before. No barriers, just directly communicating and bridging cultural differences and whatnot. Little did I knew that this was just one phase, as the internet gets more and more segregated. Rather than connecting with people, it gives you the ability to filter out whatever you don’t agree with, while staying connected with those who share your beliefs. It’s like we are no longer living the same reality and can’t even agree over fundamental things. I miss the old naive days of the internet when we feared viruses and the occasional pedophile in a chat room. Nowadays it’s the possibility of spreading misinformation that could overthrow a government. Either having it going uncontrolled and unregulated, or having a private company in control of such power.
Personally, I think that this should be the choice of an individual user rather than the platform.
“ICQ”
Here’s a little nostalgia trip for you
I think I found a link without 2 fucking unskippable adverts beforehand!
As a paid up lemmy.ml annual subscriber, I support this and am very happy with my choice. Good job guys.
Exactly. This is why federation is cool. The individual can choose where to go. Oh, kbin and lemmy.world, you didn’t defederate from the corporate shills? OK then, I shall defederate myself from you. Plenty of instances.
The admins/devs are communists, they hate anything corporate related, so it’s no surprise.
Based
Based
Tankies is a word that better suits them imo. I consider myself a socialist, but those guy are fucking defending the CCP (chinese comunist party) and are very trigger happy with the banning switch. So yeah, i dont think this is a win but more like bussines as usual.
You’ve obviously never spent any time in lemmygrad.ml.
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Care to explain in more detail? Or are you going to just leave that low effort diss and ghost?
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You are so intelligent that you didn’t realize I’m not the same person who made the original comment.
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I love this, feels just like reddit hahaha
Explain what?Sorry, though the reply was directed at me.
y not a lil bit of commie, lil bit of demo, demo-commie
That works for me as well… and most of lemmygrad.ml, but no one ever visits that place, people just talk smack about it based on a few users and posts 🤷.
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As a paid up lemmy.ml annual subscriber, I support this and am very happy with my choice. Good job guys.
Dementia is hard
He paid for a server upgrade, he’s gonna get his money’s worth.
I mean this is probably a joke, but it’s not really their fault, their client is likely malfunctioning.
As a paid up lemmy.ml annual subscriber, I support this and am very happy with my choice. Good job guys.
Lemm.ee is another big-ish general purpose instance that looks to be in favour of preemptively defederating after some polling and discussion there today, in case Kbin.social and lemmy.world continue to stay silent.
I will have to check that out. I tried lemmy.ml but found out it is run by tankies. So I deleted my account there. Lemmy.world are trying a wait and see approach which I think is a bit naive giving metas reputation. But at least they are against Tankies. As for kbin.social I have given the dev the benifit of a doubt since it is one person who works hard on kbin and most likely has not had time to comment on meta. I have faith that he will do the right thing and defederate from meta.
Looking forward to Lemmy.world pushing the block button when it comes to it…
Hard agree.
I don’t really think federating with them is doomsday, tbh (though I go back and forth on this one), but that doesn’t affect my primary reason for my nope. Threads consolidates everything I hate about corporate social media–and for that matter, all social media–without a single part I actually liked and made dealing with the other parts worth it. This is not a twitter clone; it’s like someone asked chatGPT to create a social media network based on twitter for other chatGPT bots to talk to each other. For fuck’s sake, it doesn’t think its users should control what they see on their own feed.
I am perfectly willing–even eager–to perform melodramatically about things that annoy me in public for fun and when I’m bored and applaud others doing the same; it’s fun times for all and possibly my favorite thing ever. This is not that.
Threads makes my skin crawl on concept. This is not ‘they do not align with our values’ because come on, Fediverse contains a multitude of values and invents more and i bet if asked, everyone here would list off a different set of values they believe encompass Fediverse and now I’m tempted to see because it would be hilarious. But we can’t even get that far; Threads has no values. This would be a marriage of convenience to a real doll fueled by Facebook’s algorithms and sponsored by Wal-Mart; whether or not it’s a danger to Fediverse shouldn’t even have come up because the first question that should be on anyone’s minds is ‘wait, this is actually a serious question?’ and have been answered ‘lol of course it’s a joke, I just forgot to add the /s’.
I’m still waiting for that /s.
I’ve actually just asked that in another post, because I am kind of interested in what people see as Fediverse main idea.
But, thanks for this summary of how Threads looks like, since I’m avoiding it like a plague. You seriously can’t even select what content you see? Fuck, that’s way worse than I though - that’s so obviously a ML model manipulating with people without holding anything back. I hope they’ve at least done something with the misalingment where it seems to just radicalize people to keep them on the platform, because if not, the world is fucked.
I hate Meta so much…
Fortunately I have never had instagram and have a policy of never, ever using my wallet name online except as needed (exception: usenet my first year online; I was young and reckless). LinkedIn and Facebook were quite literally because a.) grandparents and other family, b.) my job, and c.) I realized early on that I needed an official web presence under my real name because there would be questions if there wasn’t something out there.
So I made an instagram account then made a threads account, got a friend who had it to follow me, and did a quick dive.
I mean, it’s literally a minimalist twitter real doll; I deactivated to keep my name intact, logged out, and deleted instagram and Threads on the phone in under five minutes and took a shower because I never realized the uncanny valley applied to an app’s aesthetic. It’s just–I mean, no. No no no.
Trust me, they’ve taken any knowledge their new ex Twitter employees had about radicalizing people to keep them on the platform and integrated it fully.
Yeah, exactly. I don’t have Facebook, Instagram, etc. because I hate them as an online experience. I’m here because it’s not that kind of experience. If the fediverse turns into the type of experience meta imposes on its users, I would just have to hope that something else alternative that I like pops up.
Out of curiosity I tried it for a few minutes yesterday. All I saw was a bunch of influencers and low level memes. I had duck duck go tracker blocker on just to see how bad they are and it’s worse than I could ever imagine. It showed 686 tracker attempts from 35 different companies and I was only on for about 10 minutes.
And that’s another issue - if we federate, you won’t even be able to block those trackers, because the Meta instance will just be able to ask the server for those data, if I understood it correctly.
I think defederating from them is a no-brainer for the fediverse, but who am I? Just a user of the fediverse. I do not own an instance. I choose the fediverse over meta and its facebook crap, so for me it’s a no-brainer. For owners of instances, maybe it isn’t such an easy decision. It costs money to run an instance, for example. Federating with the Facebook corporate goons at first will seem useful to some instances, especially the big ones that want to stay big and general. When the big and general ones that fall for Meta’s scheme to take control of things, the smaller instances on the fediverse that chose to defederate will be there to join.
I’ve been thinking on that and assuming fosstodon and lemmy.world both agree to defederate with Threads, I’m going to go ahead and set up regular donations. I only use DW a few times a year, but I renew my premium membership every six months and it’s not cheap. I want to keep supporting it because its model does not include ads at all (premium gives you lots of icons, too, and I used to be a huge icon person, so I can’t say that’s not a consideration). Unless I lose my job or something, I’ll keep paying until death or dw closes whether I ever use it again; it’s worth supporting.
I was already considering it–when i joined mastodon I bought their stickers to show my appreciation–but this is been a wake-up call. If lemmy.world decides to federate, I mean, I’m not going to leave, but I am going to email lemmy.ml about why my application is still pending and use that for my primary.
It’s just the way federations work. I think a lot of people are worried because it’s a new type of social media with a different structure. You don’t have to rely on one place anymore to socialize online, you can pick and choose what you want to connect to. If you don’t like one style, you can pick another style. The thing that worries me is whether or not there different styles will continue to exist or if one entity will monopolize everything. The nice thing is that most modern democratic countries have laws about monopolies and they do in fact work. Several monopolies have been avoided or eliminated in the past.
It’s not about Zuckerberg, it’s about the userbase. With something that grew to 30 million users literally overnight, it’s impossible to determine what it will be like, and how it will mesh with the existing fediverse content/users.
With something this scale, it only makes sense to secure and observe - pre-emptively block, watch the content, maybe even poll the users on what should be done. There is nothing to be lost this way, it’s only a cautious approach towards a potential later link.
What could be lost is the Threads community overwhelms the lemmy community before there is a chance to react (it is 1000x bigger, after all). It makes sense to be cautious, here.
This isn’t inconveniencing anyone, any user can make an account on Threads as well and use both right now.
If I wanted to see facebook shit I would use facebook, I stopped using whatsapp when it was bought by facebook, I don’t want to see their content overwhelming the fediverse, that’s why I’m here instead of there.
I don’t agree with this notion of “facebook content” vs “fediverse” content or anything like that. Content is just content, it’s links, it’s media, whatever. It’s not “facebook shit” any more than reddit shit or lemmy shit. Content is a by-product of the users, so who/what the userbase is is extremely important - and that is why how it is marketed, who it appeals to and so forth, and the relative scale. thousands of lemmy users being drowned out by millions of Threads users, who are a different demographic, have different goals for the platform, and so forth, is the real issue.
You acknowledge that you have moved on from platforms when facebook/meta have got involved, and you’re welcome to take your decisions on this, but it runs into problems in a federated environment where the goal is to increase interoperability by default.
Don’t get me wrong, I think our goals are the same, to have an environment where people can talk and share links that is relatively exclusive / for like-minded people. I just don’t think the angle of facebook/not facebook is the right one (tbh I would go further - I would not integrate, but not because of the provenance/company, but because of the users’ expectations coming over from Threads)
Content is just content, it’s links, it’s media, whatever
Content is not all the same, there’s quality content and there’s shitposting.
“facebook content” is mostly - to me - shitposting, astroturfing, botting, propaganda, etc. as reddit has become lately, while lemmy content is mostly quality discussions.
I don’t want shitposting burying quality content here, that’s what will happen if we don’t do anything about it.
Not to mention corporate control, look what happened to reddit, and look at how many scandals there are about faceboook (now meta) as a company, why do you think they want to join the fediverse, they don’t give a crap about quality, their only interest is in monetizing stuff, embrace - extend - extinguish, I don’t want ANY of that happening to lemmy.
I agree with all of this.
Let’s see if you feel that way when your feed is filled with hate and ads.
I think you didn’t understand my comment. " thousands of lemmy users being drowned out by millions of Threads users, who are a different demographic, have different goals for the platform" specifically.
Fun thoughts and all but that isn’t the reason why they’re blocking it. It’s because Facebook is bad. Corporation, big, embrace, expand, extinguish, evil. Plenty of explanations around about why these blocks happened. However you’re also right. If it were very small like a 15k people instance and it didn’t carry corporations inside maybe they’d consider not blocking.
same coin, different side.
I don’t think threads actually has 30 million users. They have some paid shills, probably a lot of their own bots, some people who legit joined to see what it was about, and a bunch of Instagram users who had accounts created automatically. I’m not positive about the last point but if you can’t delete threads without deleting Instagram then I’m sure they’re going to leverage their Instagram userbase as much as possible here.
Up to 70 million as of a day ago https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-07-07/meta-s-threads-has-70-million-signups-surprising-zuckerberg
I’m not concerned how many of these are real users - all the shills, the bots, are even worse than real users as they will just be spewing their propaganda around as much as possible.
Adding ONE million users overnight to the fediverse would be disruptive enough, 10x the biggest day from the influx from reddit. We’re looking at orders of magnitude more than that.
I didn’t even know I was one of those 30 million users until you and others mentioned that people with Instagram accounts automatically have one.
Or make an account on an instance which chooses to federate with threads 😂
Look, Mark has royally screwed up Facebook. Any respect or honor with the guy has long been lost. Why even give him a second chance when it’s obvious he’s going to do the same thing with Threads?
His Metaverse failed. His Facebook/Meta thing failed.
He is a huge red alert to be involved or close to the very things we’re trying to recover and escape to from things he has contaminated. Why chance associating with him?
Also consider Embrace Extend Extinguish, he is using federation purely as a resource to stand on
Ideologically, de-federating an instance just because you don’t like the guy running it would be a bad thing, but Facebook/Meta has been just so toxic to the internet as a whole it’s hard to really find fault with it.
My concern is less Suckerburg as much as Meta’s corporate history. My expectation is that they’ll try to use this to conquer and destroy Lemmy.
Ideologically, I find more fault in inviting meta to the playground than locking them out. They are the very definition of an evil corporation and no good can come of it.
Pragmatically, twitter style system requires a large networked userbase to be useful for most of the population, otherwise people are tooting into the void in mastodon. So even if I have to work with some soulless corporations to get there I think it’s a net positive. For lemmy i don’t think threads matters much.
I thought the whole ideology of the fediverse was to get away from corporationl influence. So I’d say this is very much true to the ideology as well.
Yup.
Facebook has been around for almost two decades.
This is not some unknown guy - we know exactly what Facebook’s business strategy and ethical and moral conduct looks like.
Exactly, there’s an exception to every rule.
I saw someone in another discussion say it perfectly: they put the meta back in metastatic!
While I support this move, I do want to point out that federated social media sites are inherently open.
We criticized Twitter for removing content access for search engines and other scraping tools. At the same time, some have called the Fediverse a privacy nightmare. We can’t have our cake and eat it too. Sites like Lemmy are by design open to participation from anyone, including questionable companies. People who don’t like that are probably better off on closed-off social media.
I’m actually shocked by the growth of threads, I underestimated how much people don’t care about their digital privacy.
Bravo lemmy.ml! We should follow the example!
Agreed. Ruud has done a lot of great things for .world in its short time, but I don’t agree with his decision on this… I do hope he changes his mind.
There’s no need to “give Meta a chance,” they’ve already demonstrated who they are time and again. And I don’t want to end up having to leave .world in the future because the traditional Fediverse split in two, and .world is on the wrong side of it.
Wait, did he said anything on the subject already? can you link? I will be hard switching unless world blocks meta too
This was posted on Mastodon.world. The same gentleman runs Lemmy.world.
Uf, looks bad, threw a request to sign up for lemmy ml, thank you
