Are people just going to keep reposting this misleading shit headline of a post until no one reads the article and just goes along with it?
Are the people constantly reposting this even reading the article and realizing how illiterate they look?
The click bait will never die my friend.
We should never tire of pointing it out though.
We must fight!
Well it’s a good thing there’s no shortage of free replacements.
The year of the Linux desktop has arrived.
It should be noted that you can still use Notepad without a Microsoft account
Despite the ability to still use the software without an account
Are we not doing context anymore?
What is this? Just outrage for the sake of outrage?
Exactly. The issue is that it’s a freemium model, where they advertise a product with additional features in Notepad. But Notepad itself is still free.
That’s still bad, but so is the title.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but it’s hard for me to contain my incredulity: have you been asleep for the last decade? Has a very obvious pattern of enshitification not been constantly proven as a rule on the tech sector? And an article is… outrage?
Not the article, I meant the comment section
My understanding of the different operating systems
MacOS: One time hardware payment for their service (plus for every other device)
Linux: Free as in price free and freedom
Windows: 30+ subscriptions to edit 1 file, then cooldown till next day or upgrade subscriptions to enterpise version for a kidney/per user/per month.
Title
ChomeOS: Communism for the children, supported by the Education System
Apple heavily pushes their users towards iCloud subscriptions. More so on iOS than macOS but still.
Easy to avoid on Macs. Harder on phones for non-technical types. The bigger issue with Apple is I think getting data out of iCloud should you want to do something else. Their proprietary formats and databases (especially for photos) is kind of a nightmare.
imo macOS is better value than Windows. A Windows PC of similar quality to what Apple offers (built quality and specs) is not that much cheaper and with a Mac you get a ton of actually usable software included.
Obviously FOSS still wins offering a ton of good software for free, lots of choice and the option to choose from hardware at any price point. But Windows is just bad unless you’re an enterprise user or gamer (and the latter is changing fast in Linux favour).
Have you ever built PCs? Macs are significantly more expensive for the same spec
The rest I agree with, it doesn’t help that Windows has been steadily going downhill with each new version…
I guess for desktops you have a point, especially if you build it yourself. I was thinking of laptops mostly and also considering the build quality and things like the keyboard/trackpad, screen and speaker quality. If you want something comparable running Windows the price difference isn’t going to be massive.
You can buy a top CPU laptop then upgrade or even pay to upgrade with high quality ram and storage modules and you would still be paying less than an equivalent Mac. Which you can’t upgrade of course, because the only option is buying as is out of the gate. No matter what Apple says, 32 GB of ram simply doesn’t cost $300, their pricing is meant to fleece customers.
Is there a particular model you’re thinking of? Not just the line. I usually find that Windows laptops don’t have enough cooling or make other sacrifices. If you want good cooling, good power (CPU and GPU), good screen, good keyboard, good battery, good WiFi, etc., the options get limited quickly.
Even the RAM cost misses some of the picture. Apple Silicon’s RAM is available to the GPU and can run local LLMs and other machine learning models. Pre-AI-hype Macs from 2021 (maybe 2020) already had this hardware. Compare that to PC laptops from the same era. Even in this era, try getting Apple’s 200-400GB/s RAM performance on a PC laptop.
PC desktop hardware is the most flexible option for any budget and is cost-effective for most budgets. For laptops, Apple dominates their price points, even pre-Apple-silicon.
The OS becomes the final nail in the coffin. Linux is great, but a lot of software still only supports Windows and Apple; Linux support for the latest/current hardware can be a hit or miss (My three-year-old, 12th-gen Thinkpad just started running well). If the choice is between Mac OS or Windows 11, is there much of a choice? Does that change if a company wants to buy, manage, and support it? Which model should we be looking at? It’s about time to replace my Thinkpad.
Running LLMs is not a feature that 99% of users need or want. Look at all the AI laptops flopping in sales. People don’t care about RAM soldered to the motherboard to squeeze a milisencond on a feature they don’t use. It’s a money grubbing strategy, plain and simple.
Did you purposely miss the first and last questions: Which laptop is the good value?
I never said people need to run LLMs. I said Apple dominates high-end laptops and wanted a good high-end to compare to the high-end Macbooks.
Instead of just complaining about Apple, can do what I asked? Best cheaper laptop alternative that checks the non-LLM boxes I mentioned:
If you want good cooling, good power (CPU and GPU), good screen, good keyboard, good battery, good WiFi, etc., the options get limited quickly.
I think macs are more comparable when you compare OEM PC to OEM PC. I’ve specced out a few optiplexes for clients and all have been over a grand each. I wouldnt spend that much on my own computer but I know how to pick a good used computer or build my own if I so desire. The clients just want a computer they can forget about for a decade and yell at Dell when it breaks so Optiplex it is.
How much does a Mac Mini cost? $800 for a variant with 512GB of storage. Literally cheaper than a similar Dell Opitplex
Not really if you actually try to match the screen too. Good colour accuracy is expensive. It’s the best part of their products. If someone doesn’t need that then yeah, definitely better options.
A Windows PC of similar quality to what Apple offers (built quality and specs) is not that much cheaper
I don’t think that’s true, at least if we’re talking about hardware. The only thing that I think really makes this argument is the screen, because you need to go really high end to get the same quality screen (if it exists).
If we mostly stick to CPU, RAM, storage, etc, then you can get a really competitive PC for about half the cost. I bought a decent ThinkPad new about 7 years ago for $500 (E series), which was pretty competitive w/ the Macbook Pro in terms of specs, and I still use it to this day. I didn’t go top-of-the-line, so the CPU was a little worse and it had integrated graphics, but I could absolutely find a similar build to the MBP for $1k or so, probably less. The MacBook Air and Mac Mini, however, is a lot harder to find a competitor for and I think their value is quite strong with that form factor.
If we include software, then yeah, macOS offers a ton of value, since you get a decent office suite and a bunch of other utilities included with it, whereas w/ Windows, you just get trial versions of subscription software. So valuing the included SW in macOS vs Windows really depends on the individual.
Windows is just bad
Agreed. I only buy “Windows” laptops to install Linux on, and on my last laptop, I got a $40 discount because I told the sales rep I wasn’t interested in Windows and they gave that to me.
That said, the value that Windows provides that other OSes don’t is compatibility. macOS can’t play Windows games, and Linux can’t play some games that work on Windows. If you need that compatibility, the value assessment is a lot different than if you could switch platforms without giving anything up.
Yeah, but if you look at the whole picture and not just specs, the hardware isn’t priced that badly. Like you said, a similar screen would only be found on high end devices and I would argue you can’t even get a trackpad that is as good as the one on a MacBook from any other manufacturer. You also get a pretty decent webcam and speakers and the aluminium chassis is exceptionally good too. If you don’t care about those things then I understand looking mainly at specs, but if you do these things add up to a really good user experience.
Don’t get me wrong though. I don’t want to shill for Apple here. There are some things that are just obscenely expensive. The cost of RAM and storage upgrades is an insult. Or the Mac Pro wheels or basically anything “small” (adapters, the Apple cloth etc.).
Sure, if you’re looking for exactly what Apple offers, then they offer a decent value. But if you want any changes, you’re SOL.
I personally don’t care about half the things they ship standard (screen, camera, chassis, trackpad), I really care about things they charge extra for (RAM, storage), and I like some things offered by other manufacturers (TrackPoint + mouse buttons from Thinkpad, repairability, keyboard feel, etc). I also don’t really like macOS, even after using it for years at work.
For me, they offer poor value. For someone else, they offer good value. It all comes down to what you value.
CheomeOS: Let Google silently start tracking your kids until they are old enough to sell all of that accumulated data.
MacOS
And you get the privilege of making that one-time $2000 purchase every 2-3 years when Apple eventually nerfs their hardware with bad firmware updates
Examples? Not at all my experience. I love my Linux boxes but every MacBook I’ve owned has lasted 10 years and generally is quick until near the end of that period. My iPhones have also all lasted longer than my Android phones with considerably more updates and security patches (supposedly this will be more on par now if Google doesn’t cancel yet another program).
This is the most famous example, but it’s for phones rather than desktops.
If you must use windows, Notepad++ is the way to go.
ed is better
VSCode is better than np++ in every way
Startup time. RAM consumption. Privacy.
vscodium fixes the privacy anyway. It’s always open so startup times are no issue for me.
I still prefer to keep a stripped down, basic text editor though. Ah well, I’m not on windows so no big deal.
vscodium fixes the privacy anyway
At the cost of some features not working (e.g. Pylance, which is the default Python extension, as well as others by MS).
What do you use instead? Sublime?
For plain text, either nano on CLI or whatever built in basic text editor comes with LMDE.
Windows I used notepad, from now on I’ll add ++ :)
I guess you’re doing it wrong then? Stop parroting memes
I heavily use both and this is objectively untrue.
Those are 2 different use case pieces of software . NP++ is an editor while vscode is an IDE
Clearly this is a controversial statement. I’m team “use what’s available and preference tools that get the job done quickly.”
I work in several different languages. VSCode has TreeSitter and a bevy of slick plug-ins. NP++ does not. I can use VSCode on both Windows and Linux. If I’ve got a desktop environment, I will hands down pick VSCode over NP++ every time.
Otherwise, let’s be real, NeoVim is king.
NP++ was good 20 years ago during a time with much weaker competition and it’s been coasting on that good will ever since
It’s OK for a text editor (compared to something totally basic like notepad) but other text editors have caught up in every single category
like you said, VS Code is now the default go to code editor for a lot of people. if you don’t use VS Code, you use vim.
for non-coding uses, I don’t see the functional difference between NP++ or something basic like Gnome’s text editor
Completely agreed. At one point, maybe 12 years ago, I remember trying to learn NP++'s macro system. It was better than whatever we had at the time, but I’m glad I didn’t spend more time than I had to. Just a couple months ago, a coworker was raving about how great NP++ macros are … to do a task handily solved by some light regular expressions and/or column edit mode. Both REs and CEM are far more ubiquitous concepts than some bespoke, domain-specific language for defining repetitive tasks.
Install time? Startup time? Useless bloat?
GNU Emacs is the same everywhere you go (if you don’t mind the TUI)
Vi
Clay tablets
I usually use my work laptop for personal bits and bobs which is Ubuntu but I turned on my personal Microsoft PC recently to do some stuff and couldn’t believe all the pop-ups and noise! I promptly moved all my data onto a external drive and did a fresh install of Ubuntu.
All the Linux posts and Linux loving Lemmy users are what keep me away from Linux.
They’re like the Rick and Morty fans of PC software
Not our fault you won’t listen to common sense and reason. Enjoy your bloated fascist spyware just because you think Linux users are creepy or whatever the fuck you think.
Great example of what I’m talking about
Guess that’s what happens when Windows drives me insane
Fucking click bait garbage article, but thankfully the article has a tldr at the top that basically contradicts the headline and saves you minutes of time to realize you’ve been baited;
TL;DR: Microsoft has introduced a paywall for Notepad, requiring a Microsoft 365 subscription to access new features like the AI-powered Rewrite tool.
Better headline: Microsoft forces you to pay to suffer through using their AI tool that no one asked for, application otherwise unchanged.
This seems like something that should be kept local. What’s the point of all these NPUs otherwise
LLMs in general is a tool no in one asked for
Oh god, how will replace a completely basic word processor? Surely there are not numerous replacements?
Notepad++ FTW
Sublime Text for me. It has some nifty features that NP++ doesn’t, and looks better out of the box.
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So… who wants to bet that the new version of Notepad is not constantly scraping anything you type into it and feeding it into the AI, regardless of whether you’re paying for this feature or not?
Tbf, they already control the os itself. They already have access to all of the keystrokes. Implementing it just in notepad feels like a rube goldbergy way of scraping user data.
Sublime text ftw
Notepad++ on windows is kind of the GOAT IMO.
The search and replace UX is 10 years behind. The sole reason I use sublime text instead
Npp has normal, with special characters and regex, does sublime has something better there?
They said UI, so I don’t think they meant features. But honestly I’ve never been unhappy with their UI, aside from one day with multiple replaces across a few files where the autofill from clipboard kept deleting the expression I wanted to be in there as I navigated through what I needed to do.
But that was fine, anyway, it got through it and I’m just happy with the “apply to all open documents” setting. Saved me at least an hour.
They achtually said UX which is User Experience.
The regex engine was not full featured last time I tried. Done know which implementation they use, but it was lacking basic features like end of line matching (if I remember correctly).
I’m a happy sublime user myself but the search UI is one thing I particularly don’t like about it.
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Case in point: Windows 11 “Light” (LTSC) from Microsoft has the classic and advertisement-free version of Notepad.
Microsoft what the fuck are you doing.
You fucking idiot’s.
Exactly. Instead of doubling down on trying to extract profit from everything, they should go back to their old motto of “it’s the operating system, stupid” or “developers developers developers…”
Microsoft should be trying to make their OS more attractive by providing more value, and then pushing for developers to release through their Microsoft Store so they get some profit after sale. Basically the iPhone strategy of making a solid base product, and charging for every additional app that gets installed.
But no, they’re making the default experience suck more, which makes alternatives a lot more attractive. That’s… not how you maintain market share.
Notepad++ is way better anyway
It should be noted that you can still use Notepad without a Microsoft account, and users can go as far as removing the Rewrite icon completely from Notepad. Despite the ability to still use the software without an account, Microsoft has received some criticism for implementing what is most definitely a paywall/advertisement for a built-in piece of Windows software.
It’s so stupid that they’re making these additions to notepad. There is a need to have a basic text editor on an OS that isn’t going to try to “help” by giving recommendations, automatically backs up files or whatever other shit they’re trying to jam into it.
They had wordpad and if they wanted to add additional features into that, that’s completely fine. There are use cases for something that does a bit more than a simple text editor like notepad can do.
My guess is that they tracked that people used notepad more often than wordpad so they removed wordpad. Then started making notepad more like wordpad without considering why people used notepad more frequently.
It is batshit crazy. Notepad was never meant to be what they are making it into. Not even WordPad should have AI nonsense. It’s just not for that. It would be like adding advanced spreadsheet functionality to Microsoft Word. It’s not what that’s for, you have Excel for that.
Sure but with Wordpad I wouldn’t much care if they spam it up with this kind of crap. It’s something that doesn’t have much use now, because there’s notepad for basic text files and Word or Libre Office for actual word processing. So if someone wanted something to type up some notes that get automatic backups, and have AI recommendations (not that it would be me, but who knows?) just put it on there so we still have a simple text editor that’s installed by default.
If they’re going to enshittify something at least don’t enshittify the basic tools of the OS.
Telemetry was a mistake
