You have overdone the pedantic part, so I will do the same: GUI has objectively way more visual noise, so exactly in professional software development setting I prefer using NeoVim with plugins, configured by me for my convenience, because I have no intention of spending any extra effort, and more importantly, thought, on whatever the IDE decided I must need. I want to think about the task at hand, not memorize the finger-twisting magical shortcuts or mouse-clicking several menu layers to do one damn simple thing
I am not a programmer but your line of argument begged the question, “Are more options better, more efficient/effective, etc. or otherwise desirable?” Sure, if the only criterion you are trying to fulfill is “have as many options and different ways to complete the task at hand as possible,” you are correct that you can emulate a CLI within a GUI so you can accomplish a task both by clicking or typing instead of just typing.
However the parent you are responding to stated that having these additional choices (what he terms as “noise”) is clearly not effective for him so he disagrees with your original premise. Apparently for them “less is more” which is certainly understandable.
Sure, if the only criterion you are trying to fulfill is “have as many options and different ways to complete the task at hand as possible,”
Except that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying it’s important to have the right tool available for the job.
If you limit yourself to VIM and command line interfaces, it will mot matter if a GUI is the right tool, it’s not in your tool chain, you can’t use it.
i.e. I don’t use VSCode because it provides me with multiple ways of viewing git’s branching history, I use it because it provides me with the better way of doing so. And when the better way of doing something involves using the command line, it lets me do that too.
People insisting on using the command line for everything is like a carpenter that only buys a circular saw and refuse to buy any other saws. Like yeah, you can do almost any cut with a circular saw, and it’s not a bad place to start, but theres a reason professional carpenters who need to do repeated cuts quickly, accurately, and in a way that is teachable to others, don’t limit themselves to a single type of tool for every scenario.
People insisting on using the command line for everything is like a carpenter that only buys a circular saw and refuse to buy any other saws. Like yeah, you can do almost any cut with a circular saw, and it’s not a bad place to start, but theres a reason carpenters don’t limit themselves to a single type of tool.
You’ve just given the usual argument for learning Vim.
Having mastered both, my lack of patience for GUI tools is just that: impatience. I can use any tool, but I reach first for the fastest.
Ok, cool beans bro, try and write 3d modelling software with just a command line interface and you’ll quickly see how a typewriter’s format for displaying text isn’t the fastest for every programming task.
and if I do not want the GUI part, how come it surprises you that I do not use that superset?
Go ahead and represent an arbitrary 3d shape using the command line, suddenly you may realize that a typewriter’s interface isn’t the fastest for accomplishing every programming task.
Regardless, you can be happy with a limited subset of functionality and trying to cram every interaction into text, that’s not an argument that that way is better or that a new dev should go that route, just that you can get by using that method.
K, now give me the longest edge and it’s displacement relative to the x axis. Then rotate the shape until that edge is roughly 33 degrees off the z axis.
Oh wow, look, suddenly it may be helpful to have a way other than text to draw and visualize things.
So I re-state the same n-th time over: I, and many other devs, have no need to draw anything. So I, and many other devs, will choose whatever works for us, and there is exactly nothing wild in doing so
Have you tried using VSCode / VSCodium? I’ve tried using a VIM based workflow and found myself missing many graphical dev features in VSCode.
And sure, there’s nothing wild about continuing to use a process that works for you, but it is a little wild to insist that your process is the best and other people should learn it, if you also know that it has inherent limitations that alternatives don’t.
Tried, it irritates me. And nope, I never said my workflow is the best. I answered to your “wild” part. There is nothing wild in coding in vim. And yes, people proclaiming vim family is the greatest thing there is are no better than people proclaiming that only full-fledged IDE can get any job done
You have overdone the pedantic part, so I will do the same: GUI has objectively way more visual noise, so exactly in professional software development setting I prefer using NeoVim with plugins, configured by me for my convenience, because I have no intention of spending any extra effort, and more importantly, thought, on whatever the IDE decided I must need. I want to think about the task at hand, not memorize the finger-twisting magical shortcuts or mouse-clicking several menu layers to do one damn simple thing
Nope. You can open up VSCode and just have it open to a terminal window if you want.
A GUI + Terminal gives you more options than just a terminal. It’s not complicated and it’s not arguable, one is a superset of the other.
I am not a programmer but your line of argument begged the question, “Are more options better, more efficient/effective, etc. or otherwise desirable?” Sure, if the only criterion you are trying to fulfill is “have as many options and different ways to complete the task at hand as possible,” you are correct that you can emulate a CLI within a GUI so you can accomplish a task both by clicking or typing instead of just typing.
However the parent you are responding to stated that having these additional choices (what he terms as “noise”) is clearly not effective for him so he disagrees with your original premise. Apparently for them “less is more” which is certainly understandable.
Except that’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying it’s important to have the right tool available for the job.
If you limit yourself to VIM and command line interfaces, it will mot matter if a GUI is the right tool, it’s not in your tool chain, you can’t use it.
i.e. I don’t use VSCode because it provides me with multiple ways of viewing git’s branching history, I use it because it provides me with the better way of doing so. And when the better way of doing something involves using the command line, it lets me do that too.
People insisting on using the command line for everything is like a carpenter that only buys a circular saw and refuse to buy any other saws. Like yeah, you can do almost any cut with a circular saw, and it’s not a bad place to start, but theres a reason professional carpenters who need to do repeated cuts quickly, accurately, and in a way that is teachable to others, don’t limit themselves to a single type of tool for every scenario.
You’ve just given the usual argument for learning Vim.
Having mastered both, my lack of patience for GUI tools is just that: impatience. I can use any tool, but I reach first for the fastest.
Ok, cool beans bro, try and write 3d modelling software with just a command line interface and you’ll quickly see how a typewriter’s format for displaying text isn’t the fastest for every programming task.
that is not VSCode default, so nah. once again: I have no time for battling against software
and if I do not want the GUI part, how come it surprises you that I do not use that superset?
Go ahead and represent an arbitrary 3d shape using the command line, suddenly you may realize that a typewriter’s interface isn’t the fastest for accomplishing every programming task.
Regardless, you can be happy with a limited subset of functionality and trying to cram every interaction into text, that’s not an argument that that way is better or that a new dev should go that route, just that you can get by using that method.
Lol I am not making 3d shapes in the first place. Anyway, here ya go: 1,2,3
4,5,6
7,8,9
10,11,12
Do you need an explanation for that?
K, now give me the longest edge and it’s displacement relative to the x axis. Then rotate the shape until that edge is roughly 33 degrees off the z axis.
Oh wow, look, suddenly it may be helpful to have a way other than text to draw and visualize things.
It may be, but really it doesn’t even matter to me. I will choose the tool that can do that using command line anyway
Fair enough!
Ya, sure. wild that professional software development does not begin and end with 3d shapes. Great worldvew, thanks
My worldview is that it’s wild to choose a dev tool chain incapable of drawing basic 2d shapes, when you have ones available that can do anything.
So I re-state the same n-th time over: I, and many other devs, have no need to draw anything. So I, and many other devs, will choose whatever works for us, and there is exactly nothing wild in doing so
Have you tried using VSCode / VSCodium? I’ve tried using a VIM based workflow and found myself missing many graphical dev features in VSCode.
And sure, there’s nothing wild about continuing to use a process that works for you, but it is a little wild to insist that your process is the best and other people should learn it, if you also know that it has inherent limitations that alternatives don’t.
Tried, it irritates me. And nope, I never said my workflow is the best. I answered to your “wild” part. There is nothing wild in coding in vim. And yes, people proclaiming vim family is the greatest thing there is are no better than people proclaiming that only full-fledged IDE can get any job done
Also, vim-like mode in IDE gives me a headache too :)