Jews don’t really hate anyone for not believing in their God. Unlike Christianity and Islam, Jews don’t believe that everyone has to follow their religion. They don’t really believe in Heaven and Hell, and they don’t proselytize to people who aren’t already Jews. Judaism is for the Jewish people and that’s it.
Yeah, the religion with the “chosen people” . Yep. Definitely tolerant of non-believers.
God’s wrath? This only is directed at believers right?
Lol
Jews are welcome to believe in whatever they like provided they’re not hurting anyone, but let’s not pretend their religion as written, or hell even widely practiced, is somehow more tolerant compared to other religions.
Have you read the Bible? Half of the Old Testament is God getting mad at Israel and punishing them with wars and diseases. I haven’t done the math but more of God’s wrath in the Bible seems to be directed at Israel rather than her enemies.
To me any religion that excludes people or exalts people on the basis of tribe is not tolerant end of story.
I haven’t read the entirety of the Bible. But happy to be persuaded that my understanding of God and his chosen people is inaccurate.
For example, this was incredibly easy to search for: Destruction of the Canaanites
I would wager there are many such stories. Judaism, like most religions, is pretty fucked up.
If anyone really believes God chose their people over others, you inherently believe your tribe is more special, more righteous, or favoured by God. To me, that belief is nothing short of dangerous - *gestures broadly throughout human history*
I’m not really out of line here to assert that makes the orthodox belief foster ethnic/tribal supremacy.
I’m not saying everyone who believes in Judaism believes this way, but as a whole it’s pretty hard to argue their shit doesn’t smell as bad as the others.
Exclusion is just not a sign of tolerance. Sorry ¯_(ツ)_/¯
People are individuals, and I’d assert there’s a spectrum of views across believers.
If we’re talking about the religion in general? I’ll have to strongly disagree that it’s only inward looking.
Gittin 57a:3-4
“Onkelos then went and raised Jesus the Nazarene from the grave through necromancy… What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world."
Damn, that’s crazy. I’ve never heard of this. Got any other cool, obscure “scripture?”
Edit: after looking it up, I think the part right after is just as interesting:
The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world. As Balaam, who was a prophet, wished Israel harm, whereas Jesus the Nazarene, who was a Jewish sinner, sought their well-being.
I said “just as interesting,” to be a bit pedantic. But it’s interesting because I grew up a crazy form of fundamentalist Christian, which involved a lot of fuzzy support for Judaism, by definition, as well as political support based on Israel, because…uh…God or something.
But this portion, referring to Jesus as a sinner, would cause conniptions in any evangelical church. But the idea of Jesus as a sinner is far more interesting than a perfect Jesus. Like Batman vs. Superman.
The Talmud isn’t the same as Christian Scripture and this isn’t something all Jews will see and say “Yeah that’s what I believe and it’s super cool.”
Jesus’s “crime” here is being a Jewish heretic and leading other Jews astray. It’s not because he’s a different religion. During the time of Jesus, most non-Jews were polytheistic Pagans, and they didn’t really have a problem with other people practicing their religion. The issue the author takes with Jesus is precisely because he was a Jew and not a gentile.
Interesting. That’s almost the opposite of Baha’is. Baha’is don’t proselytize because everyone is a Baha’i. They just haven’t discovered it for themselves yet, and they have to do that, it’s not the job of the Baha’is to do anything but live the best way they can. Their “Kingdom of God,” or afterlife is also distinctly different from the concept of Heaven and Hell as well.
Well for starts the crusades were about more than just religion, and it’s pretty obvious that they weren’t the end of Christian religious violence and that nobody “learned their lesson” from them.
are you kidding me? do you have any idea what they did in the name of the lord to the indigenous people of the new world throughout the 14th century onwards??
No, but a key tenet is the belief that Jews have a “higher purpose” in life than gentiles, and unfortunately this manifests as ethno-religious supremacy in the more conservative circles. A lot of the rhetoric surrounding Gaza is that Jews have a biblical right to the land over…the people that actually live there.
maybe I’m naive but that concept “or la’olam” translates to " light to the world"
i grew up thinking it meant that we have the obligation to be a source of good to the world, like we don’t have a responsibility to be good to ourselves but to the whole world, we need to become scientists, engineers, … we aren’t superior to anyone, but we’ve been chosen to dedicate our lives to improve the world.
however in many conservatives circles that is interpreted as being superior and that everyone else will eventually accept it and they will willingly become our slaves. it’s insane how the same concept is interpreted so differently.
Well, it is true that unlike other religions, Jews don’t try to necessarily recruit new people, They do try to recruit non-religious Jewish people into religion, which is still bad. And the Jewish religion still has a bunch of terrible, racist, misogynistic and overall just terrible beliefs that are inherent to the religion. And there are still a bunch of Jews who just hate all other religions, especially Orthodox Jews.
Jews don’t really hate anyone for not believing in their God. Unlike Christianity and Islam, Jews don’t believe that everyone has to follow their religion. They don’t really believe in Heaven and Hell, and they don’t proselytize to people who aren’t already Jews. Judaism is for the Jewish people and that’s it.
Yeah, the religion with the “chosen people” . Yep. Definitely tolerant of non-believers.
God’s wrath? This only is directed at believers right?
Lol
Jews are welcome to believe in whatever they like provided they’re not hurting anyone, but let’s not pretend their religion as written, or hell even widely practiced, is somehow more tolerant compared to other religions.
Have you read the Bible? Half of the Old Testament is God getting mad at Israel and punishing them with wars and diseases. I haven’t done the math but more of God’s wrath in the Bible seems to be directed at Israel rather than her enemies.
To me any religion that excludes people or exalts people on the basis of tribe is not tolerant end of story.
I haven’t read the entirety of the Bible. But happy to be persuaded that my understanding of God and his chosen people is inaccurate.
For example, this was incredibly easy to search for: Destruction of the Canaanites
I would wager there are many such stories. Judaism, like most religions, is pretty fucked up.
If anyone really believes God chose their people over others, you inherently believe your tribe is more special, more righteous, or favoured by God. To me, that belief is nothing short of dangerous - *gestures broadly throughout human history*
I’m not really out of line here to assert that makes the orthodox belief foster ethnic/tribal supremacy.
I’m not saying everyone who believes in Judaism believes this way, but as a whole it’s pretty hard to argue their shit doesn’t smell as bad as the others.
Exclusion is just not a sign of tolerance. Sorry ¯_(ツ)_/¯
People are individuals, and I’d assert there’s a spectrum of views across believers.
If we’re talking about the religion in general? I’ll have to strongly disagree that it’s only inward looking.
Gittin 57a:3-4
“Onkelos then went and raised Jesus the Nazarene from the grave through necromancy… What is the punishment of that man, a euphemism for Jesus himself, in the next world? Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement. As the Master said: Anyone who mocks the words of the Sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin, as he mocked the words of the Sages. The Gemara comments: Come and see the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the nations of the world."
Damn, that’s crazy. I’ve never heard of this. Got any other cool, obscure “scripture?”
Edit: after looking it up, I think the part right after is just as interesting:
I’m curious: why do you think it’s more interesting, and why do you think the writers made a difference?
I ask this in good faith (even though I’m an atheist), as I have my own interpretation of this topic and would be keen to know yours.
I said “just as interesting,” to be a bit pedantic. But it’s interesting because I grew up a crazy form of fundamentalist Christian, which involved a lot of fuzzy support for Judaism, by definition, as well as political support based on Israel, because…uh…God or something.
But this portion, referring to Jesus as a sinner, would cause conniptions in any evangelical church. But the idea of Jesus as a sinner is far more interesting than a perfect Jesus. Like Batman vs. Superman.
A few things here-
The Talmud isn’t the same as Christian Scripture and this isn’t something all Jews will see and say “Yeah that’s what I believe and it’s super cool.”
Jesus’s “crime” here is being a Jewish heretic and leading other Jews astray. It’s not because he’s a different religion. During the time of Jesus, most non-Jews were polytheistic Pagans, and they didn’t really have a problem with other people practicing their religion. The issue the author takes with Jesus is precisely because he was a Jew and not a gentile.
Interesting. That’s almost the opposite of Baha’is. Baha’is don’t proselytize because everyone is a Baha’i. They just haven’t discovered it for themselves yet, and they have to do that, it’s not the job of the Baha’is to do anything but live the best way they can. Their “Kingdom of God,” or afterlife is also distinctly different from the concept of Heaven and Hell as well.
christians learned their lesson after the crusades. muslims are currently on their way of learning it
This is a really poor understanding of the crusades as well as religious violence in general.
please educate me on religious violence
Well for starts the crusades were about more than just religion, and it’s pretty obvious that they weren’t the end of Christian religious violence and that nobody “learned their lesson” from them.
of course but they also were about religion
I’d say they were the epitome of christian violence (against non-christians) and from then on it decreased overall
after enough of the desasters that were the crusades they stopped doing them altogether
are you kidding me? do you have any idea what they did in the name of the lord to the indigenous people of the new world throughout the 14th century onwards??
Number of deaths in the crusades- 1,000,000
Number of deaths in the colonization of the Americas- 59,000,000+
No, but a key tenet is the belief that Jews have a “higher purpose” in life than gentiles, and unfortunately this manifests as ethno-religious supremacy in the more conservative circles. A lot of the rhetoric surrounding Gaza is that Jews have a biblical right to the land over…the people that actually live there.
maybe I’m naive but that concept “or la’olam” translates to " light to the world"
i grew up thinking it meant that we have the obligation to be a source of good to the world, like we don’t have a responsibility to be good to ourselves but to the whole world, we need to become scientists, engineers, … we aren’t superior to anyone, but we’ve been chosen to dedicate our lives to improve the world.
however in many conservatives circles that is interpreted as being superior and that everyone else will eventually accept it and they will willingly become our slaves. it’s insane how the same concept is interpreted so differently.
Well, it is true that unlike other religions, Jews don’t try to necessarily recruit new people, They do try to recruit non-religious Jewish people into religion, which is still bad. And the Jewish religion still has a bunch of terrible, racist, misogynistic and overall just terrible beliefs that are inherent to the religion. And there are still a bunch of Jews who just hate all other religions, especially Orthodox Jews.