As a GM I could work around the familiar exploring. What’s the range of control? What’s it’s passive perception, or stealth? What’s the CR of perception checks for traps, or stealth rolls for enemies? Does the familiar have dark vision? Is it heavy or tall enough to trigger a trap?
As long as i know the abilities of the PCs, including familiars, I can balance the encounter. That’s part of the job, really. Make sure the encounter is balanced and fun* for the players.
Even if the familiar’s perception is high enough to find traps, that’s not an issue if you use the PC’s greatest enemy: doors. "As Mister Snugglebutt turns the corner they see a closed door barring their path. (On a successful perception check) A few feet up the path there is a small fissure. It leads to a narrow passage that winds down further into the caverns. A light appears at the end of the passage, and the sound of movement can be heard in the distance. As Mr Snugglebutt approaches…what was the range on control again? (Meanwhile behind the door is a trap laden corridor that the familiar bypassed entirely, but the party must use)
tl;dr: give me a familiar and I’ll give you The Adventure of the Alerted Guards: How My Cat Just Turned This Into a Prison Break Story.
*for a given value of fun
My player has an invisible flying familiar that lasts indefinitely without concentration. It always passes stealth checks, never triggers pressure plates, and is small so it can fit in small spaces.
It’s possible, but it significantly reduces the variety of traps, so it becomes increasingly obvious that I’m just countering the PC, which is kind of unfun.
Every encounter suddenly starts to have boarded up windows, monsters with truesight, and stealthy NPCs ready to pounce. Etc.
This is the problem I have as well. With a group new to D&D, it’s not so bad - they’re likely to take creatures which are cool, but not necessarily stealthiest or most situationally-fitting. It’s okay to have the bandit ask “…wait, why is a raven this far into a giant underground mine?”
Then you have the veteran players who have invisible, indefinite, sometimes incorporeal familiars… the most egregious was one who would cast through his nigh-undetectable familiar, making many encounters moot as the familiar could just ping down stuff without ever being spotted in return.
This why i normally leave my familiar on my head in bat form. The echolocation is a nice bonus and i keep him save.
Pact of the chain warlock player here. It’s hard to make it fun for everyone.
As a player, my fantasy is having my invisible or spider shaped familiar go in and get us intelligence so we can get the jump on stuff. I want to know there’s four bandits eating lunch and one on watch so we can make an informed plan.
It is extremely not fun when the DM has characters stomp on my rat specifically. Or when they just happen to hear an invisible creature and just happen to decide to shoot it. Nevermind that there are rats everywhere, and an invisible flying creature is just as likely to be something Really Dangerous as a familiar. It’s annoying metagaming.
The dnd rules are also kind of bad about invisibility. Shooting a flying invisible creature that’s out of range 300’ away is the same disadvantage as shooting a visible flying creature that’s 300’ away, or an invisible one that’s 30’ away. It is extremely annoying when the bandit decides he hears something funny up above so he decides to shoot it. The tiny invisible thing. And then rolls two tens and kills it.
When the party has someone with something like pact of the chain, the dm needs to move away from the surprise as tension. You can generate tension in many other ways. Time sensitivity. Or just forcing the players to make a hard decision. Cross the troll bridge or go under through the crocodile River. Knowing the troll is there ahead of time isn’t that big a deal.
The player needs to not try to take all the spotlight. Don’t try to pull a “I poison all of their food with my familiar”. Dm needs to speed up the scouting part.
Also hidden traps kind of suck. Familiar won’t find most of them, but probably don’t use them. Stuff the players make decisions about are more interesting
I’m a fairly inexpirenced DM with a pact of the chain warlock. Because I’m inexpirenced, I’m playing a premade campaign, so I can’t really fuck with the encounters too much. I’m really struggling to make it both fun and challenging.
I agree with you though that singling out the familiar isn’t fun.
Adding into this is tracking of time for the moving of the familiar / manifest mind. If a DM never tracks time for scouting then some of the tension is lost. Look at the dungeon movement rates for the 10 minute dungeon turn (I used combat movement x4 for standard 10 minute turn. This is standardize against based on some older rule sets but the DMG has a similar formula).
So by tracking this spell durations will expire, enemies will move throughout the dungeon or wandering monsters will happen. Without tracking time a lot of important decisions are missed.
I think it depends. Entities in a potentially hostile area can still detect the Familiar, or Manifested Mind. I think it’s unlikely they’ll make it past 1/2 rooms, never mind an entire dungeon undetected. The entities are likely seeing this as a hostile action, and now know that there is someone nearby. They will prepare, and potentially make the situation worse for the PCs.
Edit: Should also note that abilities like Manifest Mind is VERY up to interpretation. It has no stat block, and is very limited. It can hover just above the ground, not fly, and cannot pass through objects. In other words it cannot do skill checks, cannot pass a closed door, and because it sheds light, it’s a beacon for creatures to detect.
I see it going that way too, which means you’re incentivised to use them to scout by design and disincentivised to use them to scout by practice.
It’s not bad design, per se, it just feels…a bit flat, a bit clunky, a bit meh
There’s something fundamentally fun about the fact that even in tier4 with god like arcane powers, most of the time the wizard Has To Go To The Place To Do The Thing. Maybe that’s why Simulacrum inspires the same feeling, that it’s powerful but is it fun?
For the mind, I don’t think it is a good scout. I see it as more of a flavour ability.
I find it an excellent scout as long as you were not planning on being quiet anyway. Can even cast some kind of crowd control spell through it before ever being in danger, if the situation allows.
Small invisible flying familiars can make it pretty damn far without being detected.
True, but I was thinking more in a dungeon, where a simple door, can block them (or make them take a completely different, unique route. Also note that invisible creatures still need to make Stealth checks, usually more than one.
Invisible creatures are heavily obscured, so out of hearing range they automatically pass stealth checks. And if they’re magically flying they probably aren’t making any noise either. Maybe smell??? If I was more experienced as a DM I’d have required the familiar to wear something that has a risk of causing noise, when the player made the character.
Since I’m a fairly inexpirenced DM, we’re using a premade campaign, without many traditional dungeons-crawl type dungeons (I personally dislike dungeons-crawl dungeons), and I’m afraid to substantially change the ones that came with the it.
I’m hoping that when I make my own campaign, I can work these problems out since I’d feel more in control of the environment.
For reference Invisibility would make you invisible, but you still can be detected by sound, smells, tracks, etc. it’s not an instant win, for stealth. As such, you get advantage on Stealth checks.
Spell aside, have you considered other game systems? Something that doesn’t use dungeons? There are many around, some are more RP oriented, some more base building/strategy oriented, and so on. I say this because a dungeon crawl is a classic experience for D&D, I mean it’s right in the name.
I was a bit unclear about the rules honestly, they seem ambiguous. It says that for the purpose of hiding, invisible creatures are heavily obscured, and any check requiring sight automatically fails. Perception doesn’t require sight, but what other sense would it use out of earshot and smellshot? How far is earshot? I imagine it’s gotta be pretty close for a naked creature using silent magic to fly. What would a failed stealth check even mean (how would they be detected), if they’re downwind, invisible, flying, and their flight magic is silent? It also mentions attack rolls, but I don’t see it mention stealth checks anywhere. But tbf I’m just going off roll20 - I find looking up special cases in the DMG painful (I have a hard copy, not searchable on roll20).
Wrt game types, were currently in the middle of a huge campaign, and so I can’t change it right now. But I do really want to try Blades in the Dark (Forged in the Dark system). But there are plenty of D&D campaigns that don’t have classic labyrinth style dungeons, even by WOTC. I compare, for example The Lost Citidel vs The Storm King’s Thunder; the latter has very few labyrinthian dungeons, while the former is entirely labyrinths. They’re dungeons, but of a different style, and I think that’s ok.
I think it is still fun. Just a different kind of fun. It shifts to a taktical game with lots of interesting strategic discussions instead of an exploration game.
Usually when I get annoyed that someone’s familiar is taking all the intrigue out of a dungeon, it gets smashed and all of it’s 1hp vanishes.
