- cross-posted to:
- gaming@beehaw.org
- games@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- gaming@beehaw.org
- games@lemmy.world
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Everything people are scared Tencent might do to D&D has already been done by Hasbro: the MMORPG conversion (4th edition), canning all the staff (happens every few years, and to Magic too), adding DLC (just take a look at the current official app), walling off the garden (three tries on that one: once with 4th, once recently with the OGL stuff, and once with the limitations on animations in map applications), even the movie.
D&D the rules system has been a corpse for years, that the designers managed to make 5th into a passable game is a miracle. Play Pathfinder, Blades in the Dark, Call of Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, Fate, Vampire, GURPS, Shadow of the Demon Lord, Dread, Worlds Without Number, Mothership, Numenera, Mork Borg, Everyone is John, any of the dozen variations on those games, or one of the hundreds of other options not yet listed. They pretty much all run as well if not better than D&D.
Don’t forget Shadowdark!
And my Traveller!
And Pugmire!
And my axe!
That’s a ton of names dropped. I wonder what is the best way to have a brief understanding of each one.
Yeah, to be honest my point is there are many good games out there. That said…
- Pathfinder: Fantasy in the classic D&D style, branched off after 3.5ed. Three action economy is gooooood once you’re used to it. Lots of dice.
- Blades in the Dark: Steampunk horror fantasy. The most beautifully designed system I’ve played. Dice pool game that’s easy to pick up and master, flavor for days, fantastic narrative control for the players and GM, easy to run. Even people who will never play Blades need to read the book, it has several concepts that can change how any GM or DM runs their games.
- Call of Cthulhu: d100 horror game about staring into the face of a cold, uncaring universe. The cashmere scarf of tabletop RPGs, just oozes luxury. The way the math on skills works is so perfectly suited to CoC’s style of horror it’s uncanny. Delta Green is a great variant if you want to an SCP or X-Files game.
- Savage Worlds: Action Movie! The Game. Universal system, can be used for most any genre. When it was written it was considered pretty fast to play, now it’s about average. Swingy combat. I use it when I run a system not covered by other games, for me mostly 1920-1950s era detective stories. The surface level rules are intuitive, but the GM needs better system knowledge.
- Fate: Very high concept storytelling game. Players and GMs both have the ability to influence the narrative of the scene. The game I had the hardest time learning, not because of the game itself is hard but because I had to change the way I think about TTRPGs.
- Vampire: Vampires in the modern world. Dice pool system. I like the newest edition a lot, I think it’s pretty elegant. Can get weird.
- GURPS: The ultimate multipurpose game. Build any character in any setting. ANY setting. Building characters is a horrible slog, but the rules are… surprisingly simple in practice, at the discretion of the GM. A lot of work in prep, but when it’s right, it’s very right. The Film Reroll podcast plays through movies using it, highly recommend listening to a movie run by Paulo (Home Alone, maybe) to get an idea of the system.
- Shadow of the Demon Lord: Grimdark or horror fantasy. d20 system, very easy for D&D players to learn.
- Dread: Extreme rules light horror game. Tasks are resolved with a Jenga tower. The GM creates a horror scenario. Anytime the GM wants to increase the tension or the players are in danger trying to do something, a player pulls a block (or two, or three). When the tower falls the player who knocked it over dies. Players can sacrifice their life to accomplish a heroic action by knocking over the tower intentionally. That’s all the rules.
- Worlds Without Number: Fantasy. Sort of another branch off AD&D. A nicely designed mix of Old School Renaissance and some modern conveniences. Very, very good worldbuilding tools. Free, to some extent.
- Mothership: d100 sci-fi horror system, more barebones than CoC. Very easy to pick up and build characters fast, which is good, 'cause they’re going to die.
- Numenera: Weird sort of futuristic/fantasy setting. One of the easiest systems I’ve ever run, super easy to adjust on the fly. Maybe a little too complicated to explain in a few sentences.
- Mork Borg: Old school, original D&D turned emo. Can be played straight or as satire.
- Everyone is John: A comedy game, very rules light, where the players take turns controlling the same character, John. They try to accomplish hilarious tasks. Gets weird. My John flew the USS Enterprise-D into a sun once. Free.
For people who want high fantasy but not D&D, I’d recommend Pathfinder 2e. For people who want something a little more dangerous and stripped down and are coming from D&D, Worlds Without Number. For anyone I recommend Call of Cthulhu and Dread. Everyone should read Blades in the Dark, even if they don’t want to play in the setting.
Also, from the other comments below: Traveller: Space Adventures! The Game. The rumor is Firefly was based on Joss Whedon’s Traveller game, and that’s how Traveller plays. Amazing character creation system that lets players control some of their background, but mirrors real life in that not everything goes as planned. The setting is very, very deep. I admit I would probably play Scum and Villainy (Blades in the Dark in Space) or Stars Without Number (the predecessor to WWN) instead, but it’s up there. The One Ring Roleplaying Game: Very much a system to play stories not just in Middle Earth but in the style of LotR. I have not played this and have no intent to do so, but it’s clever in its own little hobbit hole way. I have read it. Cool dice.
I haven’t read Shadowdark or Pugmire. Shadowdark looks, for my purposes, similar to Worlds Without Number or Shadow of the Demon Lord. As for Pugmire I use Mouseguard for my Redwall adjacent stuff, but I would sit in a few sessions for sure.
Woah! Thanks for the detailed intro. I have checked out some of them right after seeing your original comments.
I have tried some of the listed myself. Pathfinder, CoC, Everyone is John, inSANE, Cypher System, and Ten Candles.
Cypher System’s premise is that character creation is just 3 sentences. You pick a class, a descriptor, and a purpose and you are done. Each of them might offer some skills, advantages or disadvantages for your characters. Another key feature is their character arcs, you get to pick your short term goals and you earn experience by attempting to achieve the goals, and you need to explain to the GM what you have done to achieve them at the end of each session. Experience will only be granted if the GM agrees.
I am looking into some systems that are easy to create characters. As it is often the first blocker for new players. No way someone new is gonna read through every possible class, subclass and feats. I am looking for a system that could drag my friends into the trpg world.
Goblin Quest and the Quest RPG are what I would try next.
Goblin Quest is about stupid goblins who die trying to accomplish silly goals. Chaotic, fun and maybe gruesome. Players will be creating five similar goblins at once and will be switching between (after each of them dies). Dying/failure is inevitable in this game and and should be fun. The quests will be silly and small in scale (like trying to make a cake, host a party, or steal a pumpkin).
Quest RPG is similar to Cypher in terms of character creation and skill picking, whilst having a little more depth in it. Its major perks are having Skill Trees that requires players to learn the skills in defined order, locking powerful skills at later levels without level systems. Characters will always have 10 max HP, at all times. When 6-10 are rolled from a D20, tough choices will be laid out to players, instead of the GM deciding exactly what happens, two equally bad situations are presented for the players. Let’s say Jon is trying to attack this red dragon with a dagger, he is rashing in and attempting a cut. He rolled a 7, so he needs to choose between dealing less damage or suffering some damage himself.
If you’re still looking for systems to bring in new players, Chronicles of Darkness is almost objectively the best option. The mechanics are very simple (no moving goals, success are always 7 and higher on a dice, you just roll more dice), character creation is the easiest I’ve ever seen it (the rules for it literally fit on the bottom of the character sheet, no classes or anything to bog people down), the setting is fundamentally familiar to every human alive (the default setting is literally your irl home town with some weird hidden magic shit thrown in), and it’s cheap (you only need a single book for whatever it is [think fairies, vampires, werewolves, etc ] you’ll be playing).
Well, it seems the news was fake, originating from a Chinese news site. Both Wizard of the Coast and Larian (cited as the intermediary between Hasbro and Tencent) denied any interest in selling the brand.
Thank you kind soul for the updated information.
Honestly the original article didn’t make a ton of sense… Why would Hasbro approach Larian to buy the entirety of the DnD IP? I was originally assuming it was misreporting a possible sale of rights to make video games only, not the entire IP, which might have made more sense to approach Larian about.
Headline was so confusing because I never see it stylized like that. It’s always D&D or DnD, never DND - that’s ‘Do Not Disturb’.
Everything about that is absolute cancer.
Everyone’s favorite TTRPG going world stage corporate. Fucking yay…
How is that different than now? DnD fell apart because Hasbro is a world stage corporation, they’re just trading it to another world stage corporation which will kill it further until they pass it on too.
Whatever you remember liking is long long dead.
Removed by mod
Nobody was trying to make this about race except you my man. That was the very first place your mind went. Which probably isn’t a coincidence because, in my experience, the people screaming look at me look at me I’m not racist usually turn out to be the most racist motherfuckers you will ever deal with.
So like… what’s it about then? Can you explain why Tencent is worse than Hasbro?
Its in general about their properties and how they handle them. I seriously doubt most of the people here, other then race obsessed people like you, could even tell you where tencent is based. Could even tell you who the nationality of the people in charge are. I sure as fuck can’t. I have heard the name several times in the past but, honestly, until I saw you posting this I thought they were an American company.
Because, you know, I don’t obsessively check the race of everything before I make a decision about it.
You didn’t explain what about Tencent was bad in any clear way, and you didn’t compre it to Hasbro, so you haven’t answered the question.
And last time I saw Tencent brought up it was about their investment in Epic, and there were loads of comments about social credit and winnie the pooh. It’s not hard to notice the problem.
Contrary to what a lot of racists would like you to believe, noticing racism is not the real racism. But do go off about how much I’m virtue signalling.
The big issue is they are just another huge shitty corp that will bring no value, and more importantly will 100% be sitting on this property for a very long time. If it got sold people would hope it would go to someone good, someone who would bring something positive too the property, people who might turn things around and put real heart and soul into it.
Ok so…YOUR TURN! You are defending tencent so hard, making it so clear anyone who doesn’t like the poor company is only against them because of racism. There has to be something amazing about them that you know that will change all of our minds? Because, honestly, right now I’m reminded of all the ‘if you didn’t like the movie it means your sexist’ crap we got with girl ghostbusters.
Delete this.
I genuinely can’t decide if this is being downvoted by people who think I’m being sincere, people who don’t like their racism being called out, people who think I’m defending a global corporation, or people who think I’m a tankie. Maybe it’s a mix of all four.
We should petition the government to invalidate the copyright on D&D and send it to the public domain.
Literally no need. Take a rule book, modify it as desired. There’s a huge creator ecosystem out there, paid or otherwise, and WoC just outright doesn’t matter to it.
Roll for a wisdom save.
If tencent buys DnD I am quitting, full stop.
Great news! There are many, many tabletop role-playing games that are not Dungeons and Dragons that you can play! My favorite easy alternative is Dungeon World but there are literally hundreds out there.
Pathfinder 2nd edition is a great alternative for players who prefer a simulation style of play with detailed rules. There is a big learning curve but it can be worth it.
Dungeon World is great for players who enjoy less complexity and collaborative storytelling. Getting new players stated with Dungeon World was easy, fast, and fun my group.
Tons of great alternatives!
So nothing Hasbro has done up to this point turned you off of D&D? All corporations are evil, some just have more power than others.
There’s no way Tencent are as bad as Hasbro
I just wish that Larian Studios would buy it. They could save their licensing fees for BG3 and could keep DnD community driven. Would also make it much easier for them to introduce new game mechanics into future games and pull those changes back into DnD.
Edit: I just read that tencent owns 30% shares of Larian which is kind of a bummer. Still would be much better with Larian directly, because tencent doesnt have a majority say then.
Larian isn’t especially big though, even with the success of BG3, a purchase like this is likely would be well outside what they could hope to afford.
They have over 450 employees and operate in six different countries. I don’t know what DnD would be worth but it’s not like Larian is small.
Logically I think it makes more sense for Larian to want to buy the video game rights specifically as anything beyond that would be outside their scope.
Imagine how much staff works for Hasbro or Tencent, because that’s the league we are playing in here - after a quick Google, Hasbro has 6480, Tencent has 108,436. Larian is a dust mite to Tencent and DND has been around for half a century, had a film based on it recently, just had a game of the year based on it and a two decade old dnd IP. DND made $100-150 million in 2022.
I just learned about that as well. I hope Larian dilutes or buys back Tencent’s shares.
Why would they do that, though? They’re a private company. They didn’t have to let Tencent buy in in the first place, which means it was purposeful.
And the reason companies give Tencent a cut of themselves is to have better access to the Chinese market. You need a Chinese publisher or partner to operate there, and Tencent offers that to software companies in exchange for letting them buy in. They always buy minority stakes, and they don’t take over editorial control of anything.
They’re actually a good business partner for anyone wanting to have their games distributed in China.
They’re just also a really aggressive F2P developer.
Hot take: the government should take D&D and give its rights to a non-profit to be managed for the benefit of the community and its employees.
That’s essentially what the ORC License does. Paizo wrote it, but then gave it to a law firm that represents several developers so no one RPG owns it.
Isn’t that more of a license under which games can be developed than a game unto itself? Or did I misunderstand? Also, I want it to be managed by the community, not some law firm.
Yes, it’s a license. But nothing is to stop you for making your own free community-driven game under that license.
Just asking, is there some sort of “Open Source DND”?
How close is Pathfinder to that?
Pathfinder 2e Remaster (which isn’t out yet) is the most “open source D&D” thing there will be any time soon.
And Pathfinder 2e (non-Remaster) is the clostest thing there is right now.
I think Tales of the Valiant is closer to D&D 5e and also licensed under ORC. Either is a great option for people looking to leave D&D though.
vOwOxel didn’t ask anything about 5e. Just about “DND”.
Definitely gonna get enshittified
That would be anything produced after 3.5. The brand has been going down for a long time. That’s not to say there is nothing good in the current 5e, just for me it seems like it lost its soul with corporate oversight.
I moved to Pathfinder 2e and I couldn’t be happier. The only issue I have is that one of my players is Mercer-coded (is that a thing?) and really hates any time a skill, class, or spell isn’t a 1:1 copy of DnD. He recently grabbed Bane as part of a feat for his barbarian and learned it isn’t the same as DnD Bane and had a meltdown.
That sounds like a miserable person to play with
We’re all close friends outside of the game and we are all used to each other’s quirks. It’s a pain sometimes, but he does genuinely enjoy the game, though. He’d only played 2 campaigns of DnD before-hand (Strahd and Frostmaiden), but has listened to every episode of Critcal Role. I decided to homebrew a full 1-20 campaign for the group as an introduction to Pathfinder so we could all (GM included) get a taste for it across the entire span of character growth, and it’s been a learning experience for us all.
4e was D&D for people who would rather be playing WoW.
5e is a watered-down anemic shadow of 3.5.
That’s a common way of putting down 4e, but it’s not so. I have no interest whatsoever in WoW but I really liked 4e. 4e’s approach was to build a very consistent and rigorously-defined framework for the game, and then build its various elements (classes, monsters, abilities, etc.) strictly within that framework. I think it actually hit a very nice sweet spot; the framework was sufficiently flexible that a huge amount of interesting and distinctive content could be made, but it was also well-defined enough and simple enough to understand and apply that everything “just worked.” You could play as a fighter for a whole bunch of levels and then pick up a completely different character sheet for a wizard and you’d find that most of the mechanics worked the same. Combat was very positional, with lots of abilities that allowed you to set other players up for success, which encouraged teamwork and player interaction.
It annoys me greatly that WotC tried to set the system up to be dependent on their online tools, failed, and then tore the tools down to leave the wreckage largely unplayable. I can still play a 3.5e campaign just as easily as I did back in the day but it’d be rather hard to play 4e as easily even though I still have the books. The best tools were WotC-owned and they don’t allow third parties to fill the void they left when they decided to transition to 5e - presumably to avoid another Pathfinder situation.
They’re going to abuse their business customers to claw back all the value for themselves?
That word with a very specific meaning is popping up everywhere and used as “made worse” and it’s grating.
Language is fluid. Nothing new.
Sure, but that doesn’t mean we can’t complain about the directions the fluid is flowing. In this case a specialized term for something that didn’t previously have a popular term describing it has been rapidly diluted to mean “bad change I don’t like.” So that thing doesn’t have a specialized term any more, which hampers discourse.
The thing is, “enshitification” was never defined as “abusing their business customers to claw back all the value for themselves”. That’s merely one of the stages that Doctorow outlined as part of the enshitification process.
Enshitification, as a whole, is the process of stripping value from a product or service from everyone except for shareholders.
Is that how this kind of thing usually works?
Fire all of the talent that made the brand great and THEN sell the brand?
Wait, I guess it makes sense. Fire everyone, sell to another company, then that company can try to rehire at a reduced salary.
Wait, I guess it makes sense. Fire everyone, sell to another company, then that company can try to rehire at a reduced salary.
Nah. They’ll sell in a leveraged buy-out, which will give the shareholders at Hasbro tons of money, cost Tencent nothing, and put the new D&D LLC in tons of debt. Then they’ll piecemeal out any IP or assets that can make them any money before letting D&D LLC go bankrupt. See what happened to Toys R’ Us for a past example.
Fair enough.
The name is all they are after.
Sell the rights to the name to existing smaller companies who will want to buy it.
DnD will never be what it was, but its name will live on.
