The only few reason I know so far is software availability, like adobe software, and Microsoft suite. Is there more of major reasons that I missed?
Some people like to work on their pc, and not work on their pc.
Don’t get me wrong I love Linux, but outside of the Lemmy echo chamber is isn’t very accessible for the average user
Everything I know about Linux I learned troubleshooting a problem. And I still feel like I don’t know shit about the OS. After so long with Windows, Linux feels like living in a country where you don’t speak the language; everything is harder than it needs to be.
If the day comes where games are as easy on Linux as they are on Windows, I’ll give desktop Linux another shot.
This said, I’ve self-hosted on a Debian box for years.
I recently switched for the first time, and have been using EndeavorOS with KDE on a couple year old laptop, and my experience has been the complete opposite. It’s fantastic. I feel like this is what using a PC is supposed to be like. Before Microsoft fucked it all up.
There are two parts of my story.
For those with limited time, I gave up Linux once because it was so “strange” from Windows I felt uneasy to use one, and other time because I simply had no use case for it. For those with time, kindly read on.
I had always been an MS-DOS/Windows user who tried Linux and failed several times because I didn’t “get” it, until sometimes between 2006 and 2007 when Mac started its transition into Intel CPU. It was interesting enough (as it was the beginning point for Mac to become mainstream in my country). I decided that my first laptop was going to be a Mac (my house used to see that building own PC was the way to go). It was the first lightbulb moment when I tinkered with a few options in the terminal. This helped me in the future when I tried Linux again. Count it as a transferable skill of sort.
Then around as late as 2021 (because of various life circumstances), I decided to become a cyber security professional—a long time passion of mine. In order for the journey to be pleasant, Linux must be learnt. I enrolled in a course from one authoritative source for SysAdmin, and that was the first time I got to study the innards of the system. After that, along with myself landing a cyber security job, I became more fluent with Linux. Today, I work closely with clients who use Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS, RHEL, and sometimes Solaris, so there is no dull moment (except for troubleshooting Windows from time to time). Linux becomes part of my professional life, as the main use case.
Linux learning curve does feel steep, but choosing a right distro for others help a lot. I never have my peers giving up on Zorin so far, for instance.
It’s more of a hobby than a daily driver for someone that games on PC games ranging from the early 90s to modern games. Too much hassle when I just wanna install and play.
For me
protonlaunch game.exeworked for >90% of the games that didn’t provide native releases. so glad steam deck came out.Yeah steam deck is awesome I have one as well and it got me to dabble with installing Linux on my laptop but there was just too many things that had to be done to get it running how I wanted. You’re selling it massively short by saying one command rules all. For instance, my laptop has an igpu and a desktop 2070 in it and Linux wanted to constantly use the igpu by default in games and it wasn’t that easy for someone that doesn’t use Linux that often to find a fix for that. I have a kid and a fulltime job I dont feel like configuring crap when I get home to have less time to play ya know?
I switched to a Mac a couple years ago but I’ll always at least keep a Linux VM and a separate Linux laptop just in case.
As for why, generally speaking, Apple puts a lot of really, really good work into making a machine that feels immediately productive with little fiddling around, they’re ahead of the pack in some ways, and for advanced stuff it’s “good enough”.
My reasons:
- Cross-device integration (at least with Apple) - I already use an iPhone, iPad, and AppleTV. The integration between iOS and macOS is just really, really good. Android+Linux just doesn’t come anywhere close. And that’s even if you put in the hours it’d take to set a bunch of disparate apps up to try to replicate it. Anyone telling you otherwise is completely full of bullshit or is showing that they actually haven’t used Apple devices.
- Using my iPad as a secondary display takes literally 2 clicks.
- Setting my Apple Watch to unlock my laptop takes literally 4 clicks.
- Casting my screen or even just sound takes 2 clicks.
- Handoff is just magic. If you recently used something on your phone and have the matching app on your Mac, you get a shortcut in your Dock to load whatever you had on your phone on your computer to pick up where you left off. If I am in a Signal chat, I can instantly open the chat I was viewing on my phone. Same for browsing websites, text messages, and a bunch of things.
- Airdrop between devices “just works”.
- If I connect to a wifi access point from my phone, my laptop will prompt me to automagically copy the password over (i think) bluetooth. Or if I’m at a friend’s house and they use an iPhone, they’ll get a prompt to share their wifi network password with me.
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Device restoration - Restoring a Mac is just impressive for how little effort it requires. If someone stole my laptop, I can drive 15 mins to an Apple Store, buy a new laptop, point it at my NAS, and be back running in an hour or less to exactly where I left off. Similarly, If I buy a brand new laptop, copying data from the old one to the new one is incredibly boring – in all of the right ways. All apps/info/config/etc gets moved over. No weird quirks or workarounds or anything needed.
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M-series laptops - At the time, there were no other good options for ARM CPU laptops, especially ones that can be spec’d to 64GB of RAM. The M CPU laptops are crazy fast and efficient. I can literally use my laptop for 9-10 hours in a day going full-hardcore, and still have juice to spare. Yeah I know Asahi Linux works for the most part now, but I don’t have time anymore to beta-test my main box.
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Adequate Unixy bits - The terminal does everything I need, the utilities are fine. I use Nix (and some Homebrew) to maintain various CLI tools.
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Software - I wanted to save this for last since everyone quotes this first. I wanted to meddle with music and Ardour doesn’t really scratch the itch the same way Logic Pro does. Another example: as bad as the Mac version of Microsoft Office is, it’s still far more nicer feeling than LibreOffice and requires much less work to get a good looking presentation/etc. out the door on a time crunch.
Breath of fresh air comment here on Lemmy.
It really is, after reading whole threads about people shitting on Apple products for no good reason. Not criticism, but name calling etc
Apple products are generally fine, its their ethos that sucks. Closed, expensive, proprietary.
Its far too limiting IMO. Open MacOS and it would be quite a compelling option
What specifically do you mean when you say “Open MacOS”? Open to what? You can already install anything you want on it. It’s unix based, so your terminal works mostly the same as in Linux. You’ve even got a package manager (homebrew), so you won’t miss apt or whatever else you use. iOS is another discussion, but imho, OSX is “open” enough.
Alterable Desktop Environments, alternative stores, removing integrated packages such as the app store, installable on non Apple hardware, whether arm or x86.
Open air drop as a standard would help too
IMO even windows is too closed for my taste.
I’ve used Linux since about 1996, when only Slackware worked for me ( Red Hat didn’t work right, & I never tried Yggdrasil ).
Ian began his Debian distro sometime around then ( Deb was his partner, hence the distro’s name )
About a year ago, I was using openSUSE, both Tumbeweed & their more-stable LEAP.
They removed the drivers for my wifi adapter, in an update.
They broke my desktop.
Again.
I’ve been told by Steam support ( in 2023, iirc ), directly through their system, that they ONLY support the Ubuntu family of Linuxen.
UbuntuStudio stuck with XFCE for YEARS, even though XFCE is rigged to prevent one from being able to grab the corner of a window, because almost-all of its different options ( themes? ) permit only a 1px thick window-grabber, and that isn’t usable.
Why??
Try installing Haskell Stack on Void Linux for ARM.
You can’t:
Haskell Stack requires GMP lib, for arbitrary precision arithmetic, and you can’t get that to work on it.
They won’t add it, to make Haskell Stack installable.
So, if the only machine you’ve got is ARM based, and you need to learn Haskell, go get a different distro.
( “Haskell Programming From First Principles” requires Stack )
I used Ubuntu Server on ARM, for awhile, and the Ruby it included was broken, with a hard-coded bit in one of its scripts that had the wrong-location for one of the basic things in Linux…
can’t remember what it was, perhaps it was /usr/bin/mv instead of /bin/mv or something … it was stupid, though, and it was in the Ubuntu version of Ruby, which was a deprecated version of Ruby … so…
the upstream Ruby maintainers wouldn’t fix it, because they only maintain the maintained versions of Ruby, AND…
Ubuntu wouldn’t fix it, because they insisted it was upstream’s problem, even-though they wouldn’t include a maintained version of Ruby.
Fuck idiocy.
On & on & on.
Fix 1 thing, & break 3 more , seems to be the “religion” of the various Linuxen.
I’m old, & tired of being beaten-on by “friends” and “allies”.
Abusers are abusers.
IF I ever succeed in fixing my health, breaking ( permanently ) my health-obstacles,
THEN I want to do a linux-distro that simply excludes all bullshit, & enforces correctness-of-function.
Funtoo seems to be part of The Right Answer ( it is the evolution of Gentoo ), in that people get the benefit of whatever hardware they’ve got, instead of a dumbed-down version which is more sluggish than need-be.
I’d want it to be based entirely on Haskell, & Julia, leaving-out pretty-much all other languages ( Haskell’s correctness & Julia’s ruthless-efficiency ).
Notice how there is a huge push to replace X.org with Wayland?
Wayland removes ability to run The Linux Terminal Server Project, so you can’t have little arm-terminals stuck on the backs of displays, and 1 single real-computer in the back, with an ocean of RAM, for all the students to use for their real apps…
This “improvement” forces all to either have a powerful-enough desktop or … not be allowed to run the modern distros/Linuxen at all.
War against inclusion of people in poorer places, where it is much more doable to afford a bunch of RasPi-terminals than it is to afford dozens & dozens of x86-64 machines, is warring for … fashion & class-status??
The X Window System works. Through it, TLSP works.
It enables people to have their Blender-renderer machine in the other room, where its fans-noise isn’t going to bother them.
Fashion-motivated or fad-motivated “strategy” consistently solves the wrong problem.
Same as breaking people’s wifi solves the wrong problem.
WTF “loyalty” for a distro can ANYone have,
… once one has been “punched-in-the-face” by them, enough times??
I’ve read OpenBSD’s statement that “lack of a manpage IS A BUG”.
That IS PROPER.
They GET it.
There are development/programming methods that hold-to the same kind of properness:
Behaviour-Driven Design, e.g.
Test-1st.
As somebody pointed-out, of all the “agile” methods, XP included engineering-processes, like test-1st whereas … the rest, like Scrum, don’t…
That difference-in-religion, XP’s objectivity MATTERS.
Any “improvement” which breaks the functionality-tests or behaviour-tests, and you don’t get the “improvement” in.
Nobody has the integrity to do that, at the distro-level?
I wouldn’t permit any desktop-environment which is hard-coded to have 1px window-grabbers to be included in a distro, hence XFCE would have to get fixed, or it would be locked-out, explicitly for that usability-defect.
I wouldn’t permit breaking of people’s network-access to be an official update’s component.
MAKE IT WORK RIGHT.
That needs to be SOME distro’s spine, that is usable-by-most, and efficient, and including the capability that people actually need to get stuff done…
I want low-vision people being able to use it.
I want blind-readers working in it.
I want deaf people having full function through it.
I want quadraplegics being able to work through it.
I want TLSP working, so a single x86-64 machine, plus a batch of displays & RasPi’s stuck on their backs, give a classroom the ability to teach calculus with Julia which is the proper way to be learning algebra or calculus ( seriously, try Julia: it’s wonderful ).
Anyways, you’re seeing a tiny sliver of the decades-of-abuse that operating-system makers have put in us, that is in me.
I won’t willingly run any MS software ever again, due to their religion of molestation-of-priivacy & abuses ( I was one of the ones stung by their stolen from STAC disk-compression tech, in DOS 6.20, and their Vista era sending all searched-terms from the desktop to Microsoft violated privacy-law for both health-care sytems & for police systems, but … they’re “too big” to make accountable?? etc. )
But the Linux world seems to have one hell of a religious-problem against stable usability.
Distro-runners need to read a book by Al Ries: “The 22 Immutable Laws of Branding”, and understand that that stability/identifiability is a REQUIREMENT for a userbase to be not-sabotaged by one’s distro.
DON’T KEEP CHANGING THE WAY EVERYTHING WORKS, and expect your userbase to love you for it.
KDE 3.5 had much right-idea, but nowadays … wtf??
Too complicated to be allowed to see where one is, within the menu-system??
That isn’t a “feature”, that is “fashionable” mental-illness.
And I despise the Apple-style contextless GNOME way.
/grouch
just an opinion, of an old, useless bastard, who’s tired of being obstructed/abused by distro-decisions.
_ /\ _
Because to most people, a computer is like buying a car, it should just work.
A Mac is an Automatic, no configuration is needed outside of your favorite radio stations. Sure most people hate that the infotainment was replaced with a touch screen that only support carplay. But hey for the rest of the time they don’t think about it. A widows PC is the same thing, but made by Tesla/BMW where the heated seats are a subscription service.
Linux is a range from manual to a kit car. Sure it can look like the big boys or even cooler. But the amount of work that’s required is insane to the average user, and most people won’t want to touch the hood, let alone to configure the infotainment so it can connect to your iPhone since it technically supports car play. But to those that know how to use it will swear that their manual car is better in every way than an automatic.
That’s the thing about Linux though, is it really depends on the user. The average user doesn’t need any more than a web browser and maybe some Office suite. Chrome OS has shown this. Linux is actually great for these users.
It’s the semi-power user, the one that has to do a lot of work, but doesn’t know much about computers that Linux seems to trip up.
It’s like that wojack bell curve meme.
You perfectly describe Linux from 10-20 years ago but a lot has changed and improved
Last time I installed Linux, it took me about 30 minutes. I had a perfectly fine system that I then improved to my personal likings because I can, not because I must.
I also (about a month or so ago) installed windows 11 and it was a shit show. Getting the ISO installed on a USB stick already took hours and more attempts than I wish to remember to get something that actually worked.
Then the installation, It took literally hours, loads of “I want to sell you shit you don’t need!” screens, I needed to download gigabyte sized files for drivers with bloat shit, it managed to freeze within minutes.
People pay money for that shit and it will spy on you.
Meanwhile in Linux land, you can have it as simple or as complex as you wish
Don’t come up with the “but inevitably something will break and then you need a command line she’ll” because have you ever had the fun of needing to dig around in undocumented windows registry bullshit, or the windows “power” shelll?
I too am using Linux, but finding an “automatic” linux is difficult since most distros are about performance. It’s like trying to find an Italian Sports Car with an automatic.
And for the general user, they don’t install their OS. It’s preinstalled on a Laptop, or an all-in-one, think-dell office PC that their company provides them. Sign in like you do with everything today and you are good to go. Even Macs do this.
Linux has improved, but the desktop os’s need to be more stable (in 1 year I broke 2 manjaro installs and my BTFS file system died in my Fedora install), packages need to be more up to date, and there needs to be gui’s for any setting that a user needs to access like restarting a systemd process. A general user will not touch a terminal. Let alone download a git repo, just to update the latest build of Mangohud since the Ubuntu version is so out of date that the GOverlay GUI Utility that’s on Ubuntu doesn’t work with it.
manjaro’s so notorious for it’s bad mainteinance it even gained a website for tracking the last time they screwed something up. I’m glad I haven’t seen anyone recommend that shitty distro in a while. Tbh nix (the package manager) has proven to provide excellent stability no matter whether I used it on macOS or Artix. It’s been more than a year since I had to reinstall my OS or generally deal with large scale system breakage. Also have grub set up to provide both a LTS and edge kernel, for example. The last installation that broke for me was well over a year ago, it was OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and it also used btrfs. Which is a pretty nice FS if set up correctly, but by default it’s quite slow. Then I switched to Alpine since I’ve been using it on a VPS for a couple of months earlier and absolutely loved it. I don’t count fucking up the configuration files as system breaking because I assume the consensus to be that we refer to unexpected issues here. Getting rid of GDM, glibc, bash, systemd, coreutils and similar bloat not only speeds up your system, it also improves it’s security and stability.
I wonder when I’ll become so deranged to start tinkering around with BSDs and Gentoo, it’ll be pretty funny if instead of wasting my time gaming I’ll waste it hacking my system to improve it’s responsiveness by 1-2% lmao
TBH, when Manjaro broke it was my fault, I know it was my own fault, and I feel if I was running EndeavorOS the results would’ve been the same if I did the same actions.
That said, yes the miss-matches repos drove me insane, especially as someone who likes keep my update number at 0, and I can’t update AUR packages. And there were a few niggles and grips here and there. But as a power user, who didn’t want to touch a terminal, Manjaro has the best set of Setting and Configuration GUI’s I’ve used thus far in Linux. If another distro took what Manjaro did, but kept it to the Arch Repos, then I’d use it in a heart beat.
i use all OS so i didn’t give linux up but i don’t use it in a lot of cases that i think it should be better.
i got frustrated at snapd and the whole container by default approach most distros are going.
selinux already does what people want jails to be doing. app armor worked well enough.
