cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1125686
Archived version: https://archive.ph/vL1mC
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230806071111/https://www.businessinsider.com/employees-work-from-home-benefits-as-good-as-raise-2023-8
I can’t go back to working in an office full time anymore. It would be a really difficult adjustment especially losing the time to commuting and needing to deal with child care. Plus we found that we no longer needed a second car anymore since we were both at home so we sold one. Our life is built around not having to commute anymore.
I’m right there with you. It’s just incompatible with how I want to live my life and the cost savings and time savings are unbelievable.
8% seems extremely low. You could double my pay and I don’t think I’d stop working from home
It might be the average. Some pepole like working from office beacuse they feel lonely at home or they want to separate their work space from their home space.
Or don’t have the space at home, especially if it’s two or more people at a time
I’m lucky because I have room in the house for desks for me and my wife that are in different rooms, and not in our bedroom
That’s a luxury many people don’t have
That’s what I’m saying. Unless they talk about hybrid then yeah it’s equivalent to 8%, but if we’re talking full remote try more like 800% raise to get me back into an office. lol
You could triple my pay and I’d still probably say no.
Holy smokes, working from home is not a “raise.” You should be compensated for the value you bring, not where you’re sitting when you bring value.
I spend $400 a month on gas because of my long commute. Work from home is definitely a raise in my situation. Gas bill goes down to $100 a month. Works out directly to a 5% raise just in gas alone. Car insurance can be switched to leisure only saving money further. Gain an extra two hours a day which were unpaid before, so my workday is now only 8 hours instead of 10, that is another equivalent to 25% on an hourly rate indirectly.
Then there is all the other benefits such as just being happier and more productive.
From the business’ perspective though, you are using less of their resources to do your job
It could be considered a raise in terms of the amount of time you dedicate to work and the amount you get paid for it.
8 hour shift plus 1 hour commute both ways means you effectively dedicate 10 hours to your job. Replace the commute with a 30 second walk from your bed to your desk and you are now making more money for your time.
Mind you, I still agree that remote work should never be actively viewed as a raise or a perk. It should be the default for jobs that are compatible, which is a ton of them.
I think it’s basically saying companies need to pay more if they want people in-office. Which makes sense to me. If you want someone to spend time and money to commute they need to compensate for that. You can’t ask someone who has been WFH to start coming in without some incentive or else you’re basically cutting their pay.
That said, many people won’t switch from WFH to in-office for any amount of money.
Okay, I see what you’re saying and I concur. Thanks for the clarifying comment! 🫡
In terms of time returned, gas, wear & tear, etc., I would consider being told to go back to the office as a pay cut.
If I’m being asked to sit somewhere else, then I would definitely want to be compensated for that.
Well, financially it can be a raise
But emotionally, it has no equivalent and is like losing a toxic work element
I get paid about $200 (miles, after gas) to go to work so even any office work is extra money for me
I view it as a benefit, and I’m willing to make concessions on salary for additional or better benefits. Arguably you could have both, but I think unionization is required for that and I’m in a low unionization industry.
It is in the sense that commute time is not paid so compared to commuting jobs your effective hourly wage goes up. Also, commuting time is actually a negative wage.
Especially galling since if I were to move to a cheaper region my company would want to pay me less. It’s “we only pay you for the value you bring” when cost of living goes up, but “we want some of those lifestyle savings” if I can get my costs down.
How convenient.
Many people also seem to forget that not everyone has a dedicated room or otherwise extra space to work in. Sure, if you live alone it doesn’t matter but with other people living in the same apartment/house and perhaps them also working remotely, you suddenly need extra space just for good working conditions. Working space has a cost, be it in an office building or at employees’ homes. Also good ergonomics means one needs a good desk and a great office chair which are not cheap to buy. Sure, I wouldn’t necessarily demand more pay just for WFH, but I would never ever ever take a lower compensation in exchange either.
That said, I love working remotely from home and wouldn’t go back to office. It’s just that even if you save time and money in commutes, there are other costs in place that wouldn’t otherwise necessarily exist.
Holy smokes, working from home is not a “raise.”
Sure it’s not a raise, but that’s not really the question. The question is the hidden cost that companies are imposing on themselves by demanding that employees come into an office. If employers are going to demand that out of their employees, they should do that with the expectation that employees will ask to be compensated or will leave.
But boomer bosses need to physically see their workers sitting in chairs, they need that feeling of power!
It’s because they need the real estate money, they built a lot of buildings on long term leases which are now expiring. Also, who is going to rent a space for a restaurant when no one is using restaurants for lunch in business districts?
Maybe we don’t need those expensive shitty food restaurants anymore.
I’m not sticking up for them, they can go fuck themselves. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
You ever notice how capitalists hate capitalism the moment it’s their business that’s being killed because of progress?
My boss wants me to leave him alone, lol. He trusts me to get my work done so he can focus on his own stuff.
jeez, using boomer at every sauces is so cringe. grow up, little fluid-anime keyboard warrior.
using boomer at every sauces is so cringe
Finally someone with sense. They’re good for gravy, stews, and broths as well
It’s not a perk. Don’t reinforce their framing
I have not read the article yet but the headline saying “equivalent to an 8% raise” does not just have to mean some kind of soft value. I have to drive 50 km each way to my office. I am much more likely to eat out while at work ( or to hit a drive-thru on the way home ). Given the price of gas where I live, going to the office probably costs me $50 a day more than staying home. That is $50 after tax so you can simplistically double that in terms of salary that it consumes. If I have two jobs to choose from, from a purely financial stand-point, my current job and a fully remote one that pays me $100 less per day are equivalent in terms of the value they bring to my family.
Crap. I have been a “want to be in the office some of the time” guy but making me actually type this out has made me question that. I think I need to start shopping my CV.
Honestly. It’s about more than money.
If your boss says you must return to the office, after 3 years of WFH. At best, it shows that they do not value or respect you, and are just making an arbitrary decision in a bid to sell more stocks.
At worst, there might be some insidious reason to make employees physically available. Maybe they are getting a kickback somehow, or selling data that they can only get when you are there, or maybe they are just horny and want to seduce you sexually.
A remote worker is often happier, more productive, and cost less to employ even if they are paid the same as an on-site worker. Offices do not have to provide parking, seating, HVAC, power, wifi, and will even have less physical security vectors.
If some people prefer to go into an office, then it should be optional. Not a hybrid model where they force you to come a certain number of days a week.
At the end of the day unless you are on some kind of probation or evaluation period WFH should be the default when ever possible.
I’m on my second probationary period entirely WFH, you shouldn’t be required to work in the office unless the job physically requires it. Return to office is very often a big power grab by shitty management that don’t know how to measure outcomes properly and instead prefer to micromanage. It is one of the biggest red flags.
I could trade my WFH for a room with a view and a door. :) fuck openspace and flexdesks!
Honestly I wouldn’t. I can’t think of anything that would make me work in an office again. I can’t do it.
My office had a window and a door. Wouldn’t trade WFH to have them back.
Honestly yeah, having my own door really helps me survive my new job even though it can’t be WFH.
Yes, people didn’t get my comment. We don’t have all the choice and luxury to work for a great company or good project. In old Europe, a 1 WFH was an ultimate privilege before COVID. Nowadays, It should be choice, I don’t mind coming 2 days a week but it to be a “mandatory minimal” 2 days is a bit ridiculous. Still, If I have my own or max 4 seats offices, I’ll be okay with it.
People don’t like offices and are more productive when they’re happy. Who knew?
I did. I always knew.
Companies forcing people back to the office are a red flag for bad management, so I’m sure that’s another reason they’re seeing people leave.
My company realized that they can remove office space and use that money for more employees. What a fucking crazy concept.
Commuting is also a nightmare. Thats 1-2 hours a day of slog to get to an arbitrary location to do a job that I could do at home. Combine this with school drop offs and pick ups and the ability to do life admin during the week instead of cramming it all on a Saturday with everyone else like pre COVID and WFH is a winner.
Also for people that can’t WFH. I’m stuck in a traffic jam every day because of office workers that arbitrarily have to go to office.
7 hours a week and I didn’t even have that bad of a drive.
$50 in gas. $50 in food minimum. That’s happiness lost + costs increased.
I had 2 offers and one was not only a 15k bump vs the other, but the lower one was in the office 2 days a week. That was a pretty easy decision
What’s galling is that big companies claim that the main reason for making people come into the office is to promote in-person collaboration. But, they constantly demonstrate that they don’t, in fact, value in-person collaboration. They organize people into cross-geography teams all the time to save money on hiring. So, you’re often sitting in a cubicle on a conference call with people on the other side of the planet that you will never see in the hallway. Or worse, you’re sitting in a conference room with a handful of coworkers, struggling to communicate over a crappy speaker phone with a handful of coworkers on the other side of the planet. They also frequently lay off entire product teams in one fell swoop. Decades of institutional knowledge that you might tap into during a water cooler conversation just disappears overnight. It’s hard to go along with all the extra real costs and pay the happiness tax that commutes and cubicle farms extract when it’s so obvious that the stated reason for it all is a lie.
8%? Who came up with that? It’s at least 20%
Shhhhhhhh
8% my ass. I view WFH as a 300% raise.
Dude chill, that’s not how you negotiate
Your suppose to say it’s a %8 paycut and work your way to 0% change in pay, but still he to work from home
I’m waiting to hear back from a job and chomping at the bit to leave because they offer a hybrid work schedule (3 home/2 office). It’s a 6% pay bump (from $80k to $85k) but being able to work from home 3 days a week is such a big plus (and not having to manage anyone being the other) makes it worth it for me. Not to mention that I can cash out all the vacation time that I’ve accrued. I’m sitting on 287 hours of vacation time right now so that would be roughly $10.9k paid out when I leave. I asked them if I could cash some out earlier this year but was told “no but if you leave the company, you’ll still get paid out so don’t worry about losing it”. Well guess I’ll be leaving the company then. I rolled over 218 hours so it’s not like it wasn’t time I didn’t have accrued. I also have 300 hours of sick time and 41 hours of weather time too. Those won’t get paid out though.
I worked from home for over a year and we had our best year in commercial lending as a credit union while everyone was home. Now everyone needs to be in the office every day. Yeah, no thanks.
300 hours of sick leave? I think I feel a fever coming on.
Yeah. We get 2.77 hours per pay period in accrual. The most you can get to is 60 days (480 hours) since they don’t offer short term disability. But once you hit 440 hours you can cash out 45 hours of sick time for 15 hours of pay or once you hit 480 you can cash out 60 hours for 20 hours of pay (3:1 conversion to cash).
“Yeah, boss. Weird thing… There’s a thunderstorm in my house, gonna take me about 41 hours to figure this out.”
It’s an old relic from pre-covid where if it was snowing and you needed to come in an hour or two late (like if your kids had a delay at school), you could. Now we all have laptops and can work remotely if needed (minus the branch staff). Also, we didn’t get shit for snow here in PA this past winter either.
Yeah, just keep in mind that in some countries, paying out vacation hours results in a large portion of that sum being paid to the tax-man. In the Netherlands that’s about 40% (from the top of my head).
Yeah, I’m in the US and I understand that a bunch of that might be paid to the tax man but at the very least, I’m getting that cash out. Currently, the only way for me to benefit from it is to get my same salary every week but just have times where I’m not at work which just means I have more work when I come back. Things have been tight since my wife lost her job (though she does have an interview next week so fingers crossed) so just getting even half of that $10.9k in cash back to replenish our rainy day fund would be a big relief.
Also informed by boomer consultants/board members advising millennial CEOs. No valid justification in most industries
Yep. My employer has made several decisions I strongly dislike and disagree with over the last year or so. And would have been looking for the door over it if they did not allow full WFH for those that like that setup better.
Now that I have gotten to experience it I don’t think I will ever willingly go back to a job that requires mandatory weekly in-office time.
My job requires me to go in bc I physically fix machines, so wouldn’t be able to complete my tasks from home. I’ve convinced myself I like it because it gives me a definitive separation between work and home. But I’ve never had a WFH job and would probably end up liking that a lot more tbh
it gives me a definitive separation between work and home.
This is big for me since I don’t have an office space at my house. I didn’t mind working from home during COVID but I also don’t mind having to go into the office. That said, my commute is only like 7 min to the office. I would like to be able to have a hybrid schedule though. Being able to work from home 3 days a week would be ideal for me. My working from home setup is a desk in the corner of my living room so the space where I work is the same room I relax and it was tough to have that separation.
