(Please when answering, assume I’m not a beginner at privacy/programming :) I know where the good stuff at)
First off, shameful confession: I’m writing this on a dying yellow iPhone XR I bought second-hand three years ago (189€). I absolutely love the look of it: the screen, build quality, are all amazing. The only problem was the locked ecosystem (sideloading Spotify/Torrent client was sooo hard).
I saw the android phone of my mother dying really fast. She currently has a Xiaomi phone that’s ridiculously big for my hands, there’s advertisements in the stocks apps (?!!), the UX is janky and everything. It looks like a bloat, privacy nightmare.
So… because it’s impossible to find a jailbreakable phone nowadays I need to buy an android and ideally I would want:
- Good screen (vivid colors)
- Good build quality (not shitty plastic)
- Don’t care about the camera (I don’t want those ridiculously big cameras they make nowadays)
- Would want to install either GrapheneOS/LineageOS
The things that scare me off:
- I really need my bank app and I need it updated so I have to use Google Play Services but I don’t want it to plague my phone with privacy bullshit (I want to be degoogled)
The things that excite me:
- Customization possibilities
- Learning experience
- Even more privacy than a de-googled IOS phone :)
- F-Droid!! (Maybe I’ll find a beautiful IRC client)
- More choices for Mastodon & Lemmy clients
- Freedom of free software.
- client for open-source git providers :)
But to get all of that, I don’t want Google, I need shitty apps (non-free software) I have to install:
- Instagram (for non-technical friends)
- GitHub (job & open-source)
- No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan
- Discord (gamer friends)
- Telegram (cryptobros friends)
- Steam (because I still love gaming)
Any advices? Phone ideas? I’m so lost in this ocean of choice (freedom ✨)
My current phone:
Throwing Fairphone into the pot. They’re well supported by LineageOS and have the additional advantage of being user-repairable.
But they only ship inside Europe.To update your Play Store apps you can use Aurora Store (notice that Aurora *Droid* is completely different app).
Graphene OS only works on Pixel Phones. They’re really the gold standard. Pick one from the supported list on the graphene os website that suits your needs.
i wish i knew about graphene when i got a pixel 6 pro. i got rid of it only after a year because it was such a buggy POS.
A pixel phone with GrapheneOs?
GrapheneOS
Google Pixels are the only options with this one.
No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan
Have you tried Spotube? It is a no ads YouTube Music client, that fetches your library from Spotify.
I can’t recommend you a specific device, but can suggest a Bootloader Unlock: Wall of Shame, which can help you choose a device, as you are planning to install a custom ROM, like Lineage. Best of luck with your device search!
That Bootloader unlock link is an awesome idea!
eh, it equates region lock with racism and feels more like an anti-corpo rant than a comprehensive view of locked/unlocked devices.
A better link would be the lineageOS devices page, or the postmarketOS devices page. These will tell you explicitly which chipsets and models are open and worth getting
can suggest a Bootloader Unlock: Wall of Shame
Unfortunately it only mentions unlocking. Re-locking the bootloader is just as important, and strictly necessary for Android Verified Boot to work.
Among modern devices, only Google Pixels support re-lockingon custom ROMs, IIRC.
Missing from the list: ASUS lost a lawsuit in the UK after lying about saying their unlock servers being down would come back up for Zenfones. While they have a headphone jack, offer good price/performance, & used to fall in the ‘small phone’ category, you can no longer unlock bootloaders with final statement being they won’t be allowing it going forward.
(I would contribute to the upstream, but I only use proprietary Microsoft GitHub when absolutely required—keep this in mind Privacy fam when setting up any unmirrored Git repository)
Check lineage’s list of supported devices.
Though after 15 years of flashing phones, I’m now on the Pixel train. I love the plastic back on mine. Makes it lighter while also making it stronger. Plastic doesn’t crack like glass or ceramic.
If you use a Pixel, why don’t you go with GrapheneOS? It is much more secure and private than LineageOS.
Buy a used Pixel that fits your budget. The Pixel 6 sometimes has problems with the battery so maybe rather choose between 7, 8 or 9. But you could send it to Google to get a new one but then you have to deal with them so yeah. Ifixit also has first party replacement batteries if you would choose the Pixel 6 and you would get this problem. Still I would recommend 7 lineup. Just take a look at grapheneos.org for length of support. Also 9 will be hard to find 2nd-hand I recon ;^)
I’d go either with a Fairphone 5 (or maybe wait for the 6 to release) with CalyxOS or a Google Pixel with GrapheneOS.
I’m on Fairphone 4 with CalyxOS, and I am happy with that. I would not expect them to release a Fairphone 6 anytime soon, so unless OP has all the time in the world, the Fairphone 5 should be good if they want to go this route.
A Google Pixel with GrapheneOS is the best thing on the market for privacy and security.
GrapheneOS is a privacy and security-focused operating system, which is based on Android and retains full compatibility with Android apps. There are no Google services by default, but you can install Sandboxed Google Play services, which have much less access to your device, because they are running in the normal Android application sandbox, just like any other app you install, and can be removed at any time. GrapheneOS offers many other cool features, such as a network permission toggle, which lets you revoke internet access from any app (like e.g. the Google Camera app).
I’m glad you already know about F-Droid, because there are so many amazing apps there. After looking at your home screen and the apps you currently use, here are some quick recommendations from me:
- Before you start using F-Droid, add the IzzyOnDroid repoisitory, as it contains even more awesome apps that can’t be found in the official repo
- Switch to a better F-Droid client, such as Droid-ify
- Revolution is the best IRC client I could find on F-Droid, it looks a little older (doesn’t use the newest version of Material Design), but still works very well
- LibreTorrent is an amazing torrent client
- AntennaPod is IMO the best podcast app on Android
- The official Wikipedia app is available on F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.wikipedia
- Element X is a new, rewritten version of the Element client (it’s officially made by the Element team, and you can even try it out on iOS right now)
- Clock You is a good and modern looking clock/timer/stopwatch/alarm app
- There are a few Telegram apps on F-Droid. I have found Nekogram X to be the best. If you prefer the experience of the stock Telegram app, you can get Telegram-FOSS from F-Droid.
- For Signal, you can either use Signal-FOSS (requires a third-party repo), or an improved fork of the app called Molly (you can either get it from Accrescent, which is available in the GrapheneOS App Store), or by adding their custom F-Droid repo. Molly is officially recommended by the GrapheneOS project over the normal Signal app.
- The official GitHub app works just fine, but you can also try FOSS alternatives from F-Droid such as FastHub-Libre, or OctoDroid.
The other apps you mentioned in your post are not available on F-Droid, but I also have a few recommendations there:
- xManager for Spotify (it’s a modded, patched version that removes ads)
- Aliucord for Discord (it removes some of the telemetry and tracking)
- Instagram and Steam can easily be downloaded from the Google Play Store. You can use Aurora Store, to download apps from Google Play without creating a Google Account.
- If you only need Steam for the authenticator, there is a way to get the verification codes in a FOSS TOTP authenticator like Aegis, without having to install the Steam app: https://help.ente.io/auth/migration-guides/steam/
- You can either use FFUpdate to download the Brave Browser, or use Obtainium to pull the APK from GitHub
Feel free to ask me any further questions, either in this thread or via Lemmy DM
That’s amazing advice thanks :) you’re so knowledgeable about this ecosystem
I’m trying to help out wherever I can :)
Thank you, for all the Alternatives. I love Antenna Pod!!!
I love it too, it’s genuinely the best app for podcasts I’ve ever used
everyone keeps mentioning Pixel Devices, but I’d personally never use one for the same reason I won’t wear branded clothes
you should check out OnePlus devices, the bootloaders are easily unlocked and they’ve major LineageOS support, the phones also have a high quality build, if you like the form of your XR, definitely check out the OnePlus 8/8 pro or 9/9 pro
another option is if you can get any of the Samsung S10 models with an exynos chip, they also have strong build and are supported by lineageOS as well
You can unlock the bootloader on OnePlus devices, but you can’t re-lock it afterwards, permanently leaving your device in an insecure state. This is a really bad idea, and definitely shouldn’t be recommended.
The S10 came out in 2019 and hasn’t been supported by the manufacturer for a long time, it’s not a good idea either.
And lastly, LineageOS itself is pretty insecure. It is much weaker than stock Android or even iOS. You can read more about this here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lineageos
or here: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htmIt also has much worse app compatibility than GrapheneOS, because it doesn’t use the official Google Play services binary (which GrapheneOS puts in a sandbox to restrict its access), except you install it as a system application, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of using a custom ROM in the first place. GrapheneOS is the easiest, best and most secure choice for degoogling.
@hector If you want to tinker with both Linux and Android for your phone, look at this list: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
There are some devices that can dual boot Android and Linux (the one I know of is OnePlus 6)
Since mainline Linux works on the OnePlus 6, I think there were some efforts to get the latest Android running on it. Ask in the postmarketOS Matrix chat to make sure though
Also surprised people recommending GrapheneOS: https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0
The GrapheneOS situation is crazy lol
I was going to mention postmarketos if they really wanted to dive headfirst into the degoogled life, lol
@Sarcasmo220 Yeah, I’m a bit surprised people aren’t recommending it and other Linux distros, especially when there are few rough edges left. Any rough edges that truly bother you, and you can switch back to LineageOS while keeping an eye on Linux for when it’s solved
Andrew Tanenbaum stated that for every 1,000 lines of properly written C code, there is a bug. AOSP is ~500 GB! I don’t trust other ROMs besides LineageOS because how do developers of other ROMs audit this?
I want to support the Linux phones, but I feel you would still be required to carry a second Android phone one way or another with just enough things in life unfortunately requiring ‘the app’ with no web alternative. This isn’t really something you can overcome without reverse engineering entire apps—which usually violates some stupid ToS that gets your account banned for using an alternative client. That said, the more these exact apps are requiring no root, no flashing, no unlocked bootloader, the closer we are getting to needing a separate device anyhow. Maybe my next phone will be Linux 🤔
@toastal Yeah, I wanna be able to support them too. I still have the Pinephone Pro just sitting there because of the abysmal battery life
Waydroid has most apps covered. Would you perhaps know of any that aren’t? Drains battery extremely fast though. You can always dual booting into Android (Not sure how that works) at least on the OnePlus 6
A bit unfortunate that devices have varying levels of functionality, but it’s still amazing what people have done so far
I would just add a +1 for Sony Xperia phones with LineageOS support (do check). They offer OLED panels, a 3.5mm headphone jack, & microSD card—with the last two once being standard now almost impossible to find despite their usefulness.
As for services, many of them can be accessed thru a browser. There are enough Firefox forks out there that you could stay authenticated with these grimy, untrustworthy apps & another fork with your typical web browsing.
That said some of this could be given up to an extent. If you have a microSD slot or carry a separate DAP, there shouldn’t be much need for Spotify where an offline library is quicker, saves data, & can offer higher bitrates (obv no ads too). Microsoft GitHub is not useful on a phone since no one codes on a phone & you can subscribe to the things you need either their Atom feeds or via email & all of your personal code should be living somewhere off the proprietary platform—especially if you want to help access to contributions since it is blocked for US sactions in some regions & they bow out to capitalist interests (see youtube-dl, or Switch emulators, etc.), while requiring your contributors give up their privacy as there is no way to report bugs or send patches without an account. And the chat options, depending on the situation you should see if you can get folks to consider your privacy too (else why on this sub?) & switch to something decentralized & with E2EE the default for DMs & optional for groups—XMPP is a great default choice, Mumble was built for games, but there are other options. Need is a strong word, & it might take a few years, but eventually, hopefully you can ween yourself & help friends get off these platforms as it is bad for them too, but you are not going to get much privacy if the corporations & governments can still read all your chats.
Your “ideally would want” pretty much locks you to a Pixel phone. The 7 has serious radio issues, the 8 works great (I had the 7 Pro now have the 8 Pro, no always on GrapheneOS) and don’t know about the 9, but other that all the AI bullshit they are pushing with it, I don’t really see that the specs justify those prices, specially since you’re looking at installing GrapheneOS on it.
5a was the last version with a headphone jack, so they lost my respect
That’s an across the board thing. But yes, that’s l a removed.
Get a Pixel 7 or newer and put Graphene OS on it. Pixels are excellent phones and have good support for custom ROMs. The Pixel 6 has a lot of weird issues that the others don’t have, so avoid it. Graphene is the best ROM for privacy AND security, and it is also relatively user-friendly.
Or, if you want an older phone, try a Pixel 3, 4 or 5. They are good phones with an older design style that may appeal to you.
/e/OS (also known as Murena) is also a good ROM for privacy, and supports a broader range of devices.
Typing this up on /e/os on OnePlus6t. Love it for ~2 years now. Signed up and support the project now with their ecosystem (64gb option).
Obligatory reply since that’s exactly my specs too :P
What issues does 6 have? My experience has been great, but I have nothing to compare it to.
I’ve heard a lot of people complain about software glitches and minor hardware issues. These issues may be due to the fact that the Pixel 6 was the first Pixel to use Google’s own Tensor chips.
Or, if you want an older phone, try a Pixel 3, 4 or 5
These are outdated and don’t get security updates anymore, and thus shouldn’t be used anymore. The Pixel 6a is supported until 2028, the Pixel 8 even gets 7 years of security updates (until 2030), the Pixel 8a and 9 are supported until 2031.
/e/OS (also known as Murena) is also a good ROM for privacy
/e/OS is unfortunately highly insecure and shouldn’t be compared to GrapheneOS or recommended. Graphene is really the better choice here.
They can recieve security updates if you use an alternative ROM such as Lineage or /e/OS.
Can you please explain how e/OS/ is insecure?
They can recieve security updates if you use an alternative ROM such as Lineage or /e/OS.
They can only receive OS updates, but firmware updates are just as important for maintaining the security of a device. These can only be provided by the device manufacturer.
Can you please explain how e/OS/ is insecure?
Sure. It’s based on the already insecure LineageOS, you can read more about that here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lineageos
On top of that, the /e/OS devs don’t release updates in a timely manner, often taking 1-3 months to releases even simple but important Android Security Bulletin patches.
They can not recieve firmware updates. They are always provided by the OEM
Google phone for Graphene is mandatory therefore not my suggestion.
Lineage should not be your alternative as it is not privacy orientated. Take a look at Divest or /e/. There are many supported devices and in terms of privacy much better than Lineage. But in terms of security it is: Divest >> Lineage > /e/
You can check what devices are supported and which suits your needs best
The Divest developer has close ties to the Graphene team. Also he is pretty determined to be a one man team and some people have complained. Calyx OS might be a better choice as it is maintained by the Calyx Institute.
