There’s a lot of evidence that modern CBT therapy just doesn’t really connect with men very well. Mainly because we don’t really tend to solve problems by “considering more gratitude” or “trying yoga at sunrise maybe?” (Was a legit suggestion when I had a therapist lol)
Men tend to want practical steps and solutions to things. And there isn’t a whole lot of practical solutions one person can try to repair the effects of an increasingly alienating society and collapsing socioeconomic structures.
Therapists can be very helpful, and by all means you should definitely try to find a good one.
But sadly when you realize a lot of your issues are circumstantial and practical though, things like “Well I’m depressed and anxious because I feel everything is out of my control, like layoffs and rent hikes.”…
…Sometimes it feels like the prevalent training and methodology seems to say “Well that sounds like a you problem.”
There’s a really good podcast about this called “It’s Not Just In Your Head”
And a YouTube guy “Dr. K” (actually a doctor btw) who runs a channel called "HealthyGamerGG.
The topic is definitely worth analysis and discussion, why therapy isn’t working for men in particular, as it’s often swept under the rug as just “Men being stubborn and toxic” or whatever, but there is a lot more at play here.
We need to make sure men are heard and cared for, before they get warped by all the “alpha grind real man” grifters that understand how they work, and use it for malicious means.
I doubt cock and ball torture would be well-received by many men.
There’s a lot of evidence that modern CBT therapy just doesn’t really connect with men very well. Mainly because we don’t really tend to solve problems by “considering more gratitude” or “trying yoga at sunrise maybe?” (Was a legit suggestion when I had a therapist lol)
Source?
I’m asking because this sounds nothing like CBT that I did. I’m a woman, but it was gut-wrenching and scary to do exposure therapy. Nothing at all about yoga or gratitude… sounds more like traditional talk therapy to me.
I would give CBT a chance, honestly… I feel like you have some kind of misinformed opinion or maybe had a crappy therapist.
Nothing wrong with me that a million dollars or two wouldn’t fix.
Mainly because we don’t really tend to solve problems by “considering more gratitude” or “trying yoga at sunrise maybe?”
I feel like at some point all the therapists, at least Western ones, got together and decided that instead of helping men with practical advice and solutions, they would offer help that while being far less practical, would, at least hopefully, in some small way, make them feel a smidge bit better about the problems.
Will yoga at sunrise fix the issues? No. Will it help you feel better about them? That’s the hope. Because, unfortunately, a lot of issues are outside of our control, so the modern therapy approach seems to be centered on getting patients to focus more on the things within their control, like how the things outside of their control make them feel.
As far is i understand it, yes this is the point of therapy. I mean which problem could your therapist really solve? The can’t tell you what to do to get for example a better job.
They can help you to find the root cause of your problems and may help you find a way to solve them. However, as you said, many of the problems can’t be solved by oneself. But is it useful to be in depression over this? I don’t think so. Is it useful to be sad or angry about this? Yes, i do think so. In principle this feeling shows you, that there is a problem. This anger may help you in some situations to get what you want. I do not think therapists want you to do away with the feelings. But where they want and can help you, is that these feelings do not take full control over your thinking. For example, when you a lie in bed, these feelings do nothing good.Anger is a catalyst for change. The problem is that, all too often the catalyst is used for destructive ends as opposed to constructive ends. And therapy can help to mitigate the chance that someone will use their anger to harm, but like the parable of the broken window, destruction can be creative.
Therapy is about the patient getting into a better, more positive, and happier mindset.
Happy people, don’t tend to get angry enough to rise up and overthrow their oppressors.
So yeah, there’s a correlation there, but if therapy was being used as a vehicle for “the man” (or whomever) to keep you from their oppression, IMO, therapy would be a lot cheaper, or free.
To me, since therapy isn’t free for so many people, that’s not it’s primary motivator. The main push for therapy is in self analysis and understanding the reason why you feel as you do. All in an effort to help the patient have more control over their emotions, and feel better overall, or process through things that may have been very disruptive to their mental well-being. Everything from a sudden job loss to childhood trauma.
I don’t think that any therapist would ever encourage you to stay in a situation that you were actively being harmed in (either mentally or physically). At worst, they wouldn’t tell you to stay in that situation, but also wouldn’t push you to get out of it, staying neutral. Bluntly, it’s not the job of therapy to tell you “that’s toxic and you should get out”, their job is to have you recognise that the situation you’re in is toxic and decide to exit that situation. They want to lead you to that decision, not make it for you.
Long story short, the sum total of therapy in my opinion, is to ask the tough questions and honestly pursue solutions to any problems you may have in your life. The therapist is just a guide on that path, but you must walk it. If that leads to finding a new job or getting out of a relationship or something of that nature, you have to make that choice; the therapist can help you see things in a better, more neutral light (untainted by your own perspective), and think about things more critically, but can’t and shouldn’t be simply telling you what to do.
This is a big reason why the stereotypical phrases we see in popular culture about therapists is that they’re sitting back, listening to you saying things like “how does that make you feel?” And “why do you think they did that?”… Because that’s what they’re doing, they’re forcing you to consider what other people may have been doing, or what their motivations were, and how it affected you. It helps you have perspective on what’s happening in your life and look at things in a way that makes sense, rather than just be frustrated by others constantly being demanding or whatever they’re doing.
Therapy, IMO, is 100% about the patient making sense of what’s around them and making good decisions about what to do next.
Simply put: you cannot control others and what they do, but you can control how you react to those people and how you allow them to affect you.
“trying yoga at sunrise maybe?”
Shitty half assed suggestion but for real one of the original big motivations of yoga is that a lot of people struggle with meditating and “just clearing their mind”. Yoga isn’t just about physical strength and flexibility, it is also about providing a very direct physical practice to make the process of mentally reaching a meditative state easier.
I think it is a great compliment to therapy since in therapy you can talk about how best to rewire negative thought processes into positive ones and in yoga you can practice actually doing that while getting some good moderate exercise.
Oh man, I can second HealthyGamerGG. Decent tips and aside from that also a pleasant fellow all around (at least that’s how he comes off in his vids)
And there isn’t a whole lot of practical solutions one person can try to repair the effects of an increasingly alienating society and collapsing socioeconomic structures.
Doing something about that is something practical to do, no?
Become an Anarchist like myself and never suffer from the dread imposed on you by living in a surveillance dystopia.
And how do you do something “practical” about it, with any ideology and not just anarchism? Becoming radicalized and aware of surrounding ideology doesn’t suddenly make you able to throw everything away, it doesn’t eliminate your need for food and roof over the head which is something you need money and a job for.
You are absolutely right.
However if you do your part in solving the issues we as a people of the world face, it is my opinion that you will feel better as a result.
Say you could do something for the homeless, protest, inform others, like say through founding of a newspaper, start a worker-owned company and many more that I cannot think of at the moment.
Doing something to work towards resolving the issues that bring you down is it’s own therapy.
Fellow anarchist (Christian variety), and I hear you friend.
“Never suffer from the dread imposed on you” is a bit of a lofty promise! Oftentimes even with the best aims, somebody feels overwhelmed.
For example, I tried to rile up all my coworkers, and they agreed with me, but didn’t want to rock the boat. So nothing changed. And I left, not being able to singlehandedly turn tables on management myself.
I think you can be energized and feel a sense of purpose when you find your way to make positive change in the world absolutely.
But it’s still a fight, because everything is stacked against people who want more than just going round and round on the labor/consumption cycle. It doesn’t end. The System™ doesn’t need to sleep or vent its feelings on its path to consumption.
It wears on you after a while.
So my point is, therapy is great for discussing those feelings. But we often hit a brick wall where I was mentally handling things in a constructive, mature, self aware way, but there just wasn’t anything to be done because the circumstances just don’t stop wearing on you.
Therapist: you need to focus less on the things that are outside of your control, and come to accept the fact that there are some things you just can’t change.
Me: crying you mean some things just be what they be?
It do
The few times in my life I’ve been to therapy or counseling on times at very different ages in my life for wildly different reasons, it’s interesting that every single time, it amounted to them nicely asking me to let it go. Just stop letting whatever IT is affect you. Thanks asshole. How is that a fucking career?
Better than my experiences.
Which involved one laughing at me, and telling me to stop being silly and be serious when I was being serious.
and the other one being a christnut that, in their christlike duty, decided to bilk me for a few thousand dollars before telling me I needed to go to church and submit to jesus, because being a godless heathen was why i had my problems.
edit.
Not tryin to gate keep ya or play who has the best misery, to be clear. Just sympathizing.
Where do you live? I’m asking because my experience couldn’t be more different and I’m in Germany.
I’m also a man, went to therapy and my therapist was just fantastic! She could relate to me, gave excellent advice etc., really changed my life for the better.
PS: of course I didn’t have go anything or so, just if I’d miss a session ^^ (in theory, but even 30m late to a 50m session was still fine hehe)
Not the person you asked, but I’m from Spain and I’ve had a fairly similar experience.
I have a fun story on this. I’m male, and I have fairly recently been diagnosed with adult ADHD, which has given some context to why I am the way I am.
I also fairly recently hit burnout, which isn’t fun. But I have recovered and wanted to return to work. To facilitate this, I engaged with my doctor for a referral to a therapist to help deal with the unique challenges I faced. I had a call with the therapist (they’re entirely remote), in October, they gave me some “homework” of stuff to check into as I transition back into working, and set a follow up call for about a month later (mid November)…
I still haven’t heard from them and it’s now mid-December.
I was forgotten about by my therapist.
It is what it is.
Being forgotten is the worst thing that happens to adhd adults, been forgotten most of this year
Yeah and then you have too feel motivated enough to push through. An affliction were these things are particularly difficult…
Go to therapist.
Therapist says it is what it is.
exactly! this is my experience… that and “you can have drugs to deal with your drug problem if you want.”… i didn’t want and glad i that’s the decision i made. it is what it is
and then… how does that make you feel?
“It is what it is” works until it doesn’t. Then, after you’ve swept all your problems under the rug for 10+ years, it’ll all come crumbling down. The idea that men should not show emotions and should always stay “strong” is one of the most toxic and destructive ideas out there. If you’re a guy going through some shit, please know that it’s okay to cry, it’s okay to feel weak, it’s okay to ask for help. Shit often won’t go away by ignoring it, it’ll come back later to bite you.
In America, asking for help often only results in a lighter wallet and additional related or semi-related stress. " It is what it is " is not only cheaper but offers more peace faster.
Why have 3 mental health and no monies, when I can have no mental health and 3 monies!? taps head
I mean, that’s pretty much exactly what all three of my therapists told me
Psychologists after the pandemic: that’ll be $250 AUD out of pocket after the Medicare rebate.
Me: Yeah I’d rather be depressed and anxious than pay that once every 2 weeks thanks 👍
I went to therapy and now I’m a girl…
Were you also a girl before therapy? If so, this isn’t that uncommon.
I went to therapy as a teenager and now, decades later, I’m a grown man. Explain that, science!
It’s better to fix problems by ourselves than give money to therapist and pretend it’s helping.
Shrug.
It is what it is.
‘So it goes’.
getting Ray Bradbury vibes from this comment
You might misremembering it, as it’s more akin to Kurt Vonegut. This phrase is frequently used in his Slaughterhouse-Five, one of my favorite pieces of fiction.
Dang, I was misremembering it. It’s been a while since I read Slaughterhouse 5
No problem, really. Even better, reading it now can bring you even better experience and understanding of these themes. I didn’t have it in my school’s curriculum and I read it in my 20s, and I don’t believe I’ve exhausted it at that time in my life. There’s something magic sense in his prose I do feel I won’t find until I have me hairs completely gray. So I find it perfectly okay to reread it and maybe find new thoughts you haven’t got before to enrich thyself. See if you can give it a chance. In some contexts it just huts different.
I’ll be right…
I have seen several therapists both individually and in a group setting, and the therapist’s approach can range from “why don’t you try to cater to everyone else’s insecurities all of the time instead of standing up for yourself in a constructive way” to actual support that can lead to change. It isn’t a perfect solution and can require trying more than one therapist to find one that actually listens and helps if you want to actually fix something instead of just someone to listen to you complain.
They were all ridiculously expensive and only one was actually helpful. Heck, the successful one ended with less frequent sessions and then ending with a plan to schedule if needed. I can see why someone who only had experience with the other approaches wouldn’t want to waste money on not resolving anything.
In my limited experience the therapists who were men actually acknowledged issues and tried to resolve them, which makes a bit of sense as therapists come from the same society where women frequently want to just be heard and men want to do things because that is how they are raised.
Completely correct, and it seems that mentality is alive and well.
Bluntly, society seems to put the burden of being independent and successful squarely on the shoulders of men with little regard to their well-being. For most men, everything has a solution where you “just need to do x” and you’ll “fix” the issue. This works for stuff like a job, where something that’s a problem requires an active task to find and execute the solution. Soft skills not required.
Meanwhile, a lot of traditionally female held roles in society, usually in the form of care (mother/parent, nurse, customer service) are very soft-skill heavy. There may be no solution, and their job is to make everyone okay with the situation… More mitigation, than fix. Just make the problem less bad.
Meanwhile, nobody bats an eye when a woman mentions that they see a therapist, but when a guy mentions it, he’s seen as weak, that he doesn’t have the solutions to the issues he faces, yet the men have never been given the tools to deal with situations that they cannot control. Either you fall in line with a “yes, sir!” Or you find a new solution to fix the problem. Just accept it and move on with life, or find a better way. There’s no grey area, so many just go with “it is what it is” rather than actually trying.
With society getting to the point where many traditionally gendered roles are being assigned to anyone (which, don’t get me wrong, this is progress), the thinking needs to change.
