Found this notification this morning on my pixel 6.
Okay, turned it off. If a site needs my location it can ask me and I can politely tell it to fuck off unless it has a warrant.
Isn’t that just because Firefox got access to location data because some site asked for it?
Yep. Like a map website…
commenting cus I also have the same question
i mean it’s just because you can grant websites location data and toggle telemetry.
Alright gang, what are some good open source Firefox forks available on Android and Linux?
Waterfox
Hey guys, did you know?
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Librewolf for Linux. And ironfox on android
On Desktop I use Zen Browser. On Android I still use Brave, but I’m considering switching to a non chromium browser there some time.
I moved from Firefox on Android to Brave recently because it was too often breaking sites or taking much longer to load. Firefox just added a report broken sktes feature to the app though so maybe I’ll go back. Be the change I want to see in the world and whatnot.
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FWIW I’m not seeing this on the Play Store for Firefox 136.0.1 on my Pixel 8a, and I’m not seeing any warnings on Beta or Nightly either:
I don’t see it from installs direct via Obtainium, either.
Fennec is great on Android
I’ve been pretty happy with it as my casual web search browser, putting all my social media on a different browser. And it’s in F-Droid, so that always feels good.
Great app also maintained by Mozilla
(wait, don’t tell me y’all don’t know lol)
Firefox is maintained by Mozilla, Fennec is a custom build that removes some stuff, and is maintained by some Russian person who I’m pretty sure isn’t affiliated with Mozilla (get here by clicking the “Issue Tracker” link).
It’s not a fork since it’s built from Mozilla sources, it’s just a build script.
So if Mozilla wants to monetize location data, what does this mean for all the custom ROMs that use Mozilla’s location provider instead of Google’s?
This might mean that we would have no true free location provider left.
Edit: just was thinking, what does this mean for Firefox forks that also use Mozilla’s location service?
No custom ROM use MLS anymore. It was shut down a few years ago.
Anyway, in general, apps get their location data from Play Services.
Apps that don’t use Play Services get data from the default provider, which is always Google.
The successor of MLS is BeaconDB.
So if Mozilla wants to monetize location data, what does this mean for all the custom ROMs that use Mozilla’s location provider instead of Google’s?
Nothing, because they dont sell location data, this just seems like a routine warning that pops up when ToS and Privacy policy changes, and since they have clarified their position on this matter, (not to mention the lack of alternative FOSS web engines). We really shouldn’t let this bother us
Of course i might be wrong and it may come out that Mozilla has turned heel(lot of heel turning happening lately)
wait, mozilla has a location provider? maybe there is open street map, idk what’s the difference between a map and a location provider
My (probably incomplete) understanding is: phones have a GNSS chip (such as GPS, Galileo, or Glonass), but getting location from that takes a long time and a lot of battery. So they estimate location based on other information such as what cell tower they are connected to and the list of available wi-fi networks. This requires a database with all that info, which Google built through its Street View cars.
So the location provider is a service to which your phone sends all the info it has and which replies with an estimate of your location; which means it handles a lot of sensitive data.
ooh does openstreetmap have a location viewer? it would be better for privacy than mozzila and google
Nah, open street maps is part of an open source map initiative with Meta and Microsoft, we’re safe there…
so it’s not an alternative
Fork it, split it off, share it.
Any good browser suggestion??
fennec - it’s foss firefox mod, without google and other tracking garbage
I like Zen. Waterfox is also good.
for android?
I like Vivaldi
Which is chrome in a trench coat.
Vivaldi
That’s chromium based. Having more firefox based browsers helps take away the dominate control Google has on browsers.
Do they share location data without asking though? Google has an incentive to exaggerate.
You know what they say about people who live in glass houses…
Don’t advertise others’ locations?
Many Linux distributions will need to dig Firefox looks like . I use Fennec btw , and in desktop Libre wolf since a long time.
Even if this isn’t entirely true, you know Google wouldn’t pass up the opportunity to reduce Firefox market share to scare everyone back to Chrome.
There isn’t to much to reduce. I don’t think Google is scared or afraid by Firefox, like at all.
Firefox? You mean the company they give several hundred million dollars/year? Yeah I don’t think they’re too worried. They need some number of users on Firefox to prevent anti-trust issues. Which they’re on the brink of right now.
you’re right Google’s not worried.
as for anti-trust, they’re already in sentencing phase.
Given the current administration, I’d be very unsurprised if that disappears.
Like chrome does something different?
Yes, chrome is doing something different. It is even worse!
That’s not the point they’re trying to make I think. It’s more of an attack on perfection. Like “the alternative is not perfect either so why not just stay with Chrome”. It’s not a very strong argument in general but it might be enough to keep people from switching.
the alternative is not perfect either so why not just stay
It does work for a lot of people. Seeing they need to change and adapt if they do change, and it seemingly seems to be as bad as what they’re using now, why change and face headaches and hassle.
exactly, when confronted with cognitive dissonance people look for any shitty excuse to avoid changing their minds.
No but where are you going to go. The options are shrinking.
Waterfox works great on Android.
Fennec on mobile. LibreWolf on desktop.
Iron fox is another option.
Zen browser is great on desktop
Zen, at least from the few times that I’ve tried it, also has some major issues that I personally find to be deal-breakers. Like forgetting tabs in a window that has just been closed. If you accidentally close a window that you’re working, without quitting the browser, you lose everything in it. As someone who is prone to doing that when closing a tab, it’s not ideal.
It integrates into the Google ecosystem well, and if that has value to a person it may just be enough to bring them back to chrome.
Who would use the Google ecosystem? Yuck. 🤮
I wonder if they say people should be careful with Chrome 😂
they don’t have to! they microsoft explorered that shit
There’s no need to reduce Firefox marketshare. Most people don’t even consider using anything else than whatever is default in their device.
Also, it’s not a Google scare tactic or a flex. Every application on the Play Store must disclose the general outlines of their data policy, including the sharing of data. Lying with those checkbox is not a good idea but they are completely informative and put there by the publishing party, so the people responsible for publishing Firefox on mobile just updated these, and this is what is shown when an app publisher say their app is sharing data with third parties.
tl;dr: it’s very likely that not a single soul at Google even looked at this, as this is just the regular behavior of the Play Store with apps that changes their data policy or indicate sharing user data with third parties.
Why the dichotomy between the chrome listing on the store then?
No idea, I’m not that obsessed with it. But do note that “The developers of these apps provided info about their data sharing practices to an app store. They may update it over time.” and “Data sharing practices may vary based on your app version, use, region, and age.”
The recent changes to Firefox terms of use (well, their introduction really) was supposedly meant to appease some regional lawmakers. Maybe it is a regional thing. Maybe they changed it again. Maybe it’s, as often with store page update, rolled out progressively to people (in either direction, whether it’s adding or removing these terms).
The point is, that’s neither a “Google” operation to put Firefox in a bad light, nor a Mozilla operation to… do whatever it is they’re doing these days. It’s just a regular message. Which, reading a lot of the replies here, is something that have to be said.
Lol if Google really wanted to kill FF they would just stop paying them half a billion a year.
So you’re advocating that Google shouldn’t broadcast that firefox is broadcasting your current location? Even though they do this for every other app available on Android, you’re saying they shouldn’t do this for firefox?
Why?
This notice is effectively added by the Firefox developers when they select the ability to enable location services and also tick a box thay they collect data.
They want to scare people to stay on Chrome now that they discontinued support of uBlock (not that it was ever supported on Chrome for Android anyway)
So they do this for all apps. Every single app that is in the Android ecosystem. But in your mind they’re specifically targeting firefox with this to make people “scared” huh?
Must be nice to live in denial.
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The story I heard was that by of California’s definition of selling data, doing anything with user data that could benefit the company was considered selling data. So they updated their FAQ to be in line with that definition. But I could be wrong, if someone could point me to a good article I’d appreciate it.
Here’s Louis Rossmann’s wiki where he details it. I hope that helps.
Thanks! Sounds like limiting risk from the California bill is a plausible reason, but it isn’t confirmed.
Legal Definitions of “Selling Data” Under the CCPA Are Broad: As noted above, the CCPA’s definition encompasses many data-sharing practices that may not align with common understanding of “selling data”.[16] Even if Mozilla was not directly selling user data, its search partnerships, telemetry data sharing, & sponsored content could have been interpreted as data sales if Mozilla received any financial benefit from them, all of which were actions that Mozilla has already been transparent & upfront about.
Mozilla’s Search Engine Deals Could Be Considered Data Sales: As mentioned earlier, these partnerships could legally qualify as data sales under the CCPA definition, despite being an existing part of Mozilla’s business model that consumers are already aware of.[1]
Sponsored Content in Firefox’s New Tab Page Involves Data Exchange: Mozilla dReferencesisplays sponsored content and ads on the Firefox New Tab page, which may involve user interaction data being shared with advertisers.[11] Even if the data is anonymized, the CCPA considers certain types of aggregated data as personal information if it can be linked back to users.[16]
It sounds like a bullshit excuse, to me.
If they wanted to cover their ass, they could have changed their ToS any number of different ways than what they went with.
Let’s not be naïve. All corporations are the enemy, including Mozilla.
To be fair they are a company with bills to pay and they have to shield themselves from being fined or sued. At this point I assume almost everything has been backdoored to hell and I’d rather use the product from the company with better overall terms and principles.
i’m a person with bills to pay, but if i paid those bills by endangering people, i’d be a bad person.
corporations exist to protect people from the financial and legal repercussions of their business activity.
they should not exist, and so, I will celebrate if Mozilla goes into bankruptcy.
we do not need them. control of firefox should be in the hands of a not-for-profit group, not a company.
ACAB? C being Companies.
A weird number of C things fit in there.
Cops Companies CEOs
In short: yes.
You’re saying “exploiting” user data might have been more precise than “selling”. Either way I don’t want them doing it.
terrible choice of link. There was a stack of reporting from various tech-news sites and blogs; but you’ve given as the nazi site.
Google warning you about Mozilla is just peak fucking irony
God damn why’s the world so shit
i know, thats some really late stage capitalism bullshit.
It really is. Literally everything is shit and I’m so fucking over it.
God damn why’s the world so shit
Society empowers and encourages shitty people that only care about their own kind/tribe, is why.
Society empowers and encourages shitty people that only care about
their own kind/tribethemselves, is why.
This is the Bad Place
My understanding is this is due to regions broadening the definition of “sell” to include any form of personal data transfer. So Mozilla giving location info (with consent if you enable “ask every time” in the permissions) to websites to look up local store hours or whatever is “selling data.”
AFAIK, nothing has changed in Firefox.
“Quick! Jump to chrome instead!” - Google spokesperson
