To clarify here, I don’t feel like I’m significantly smarter than most people, but I feel like people have a hard time doing any sort of thinking about stuff. Especially when it comes to verifying “facts.”
I think the average person isn’t very bright. And that’s okay. Most of us don’t need to be discovering new maths or creating new works of art.
But anyone is going to perform worse when they’re stressed, distracted, afraid, hungry, or similar. A lot of people, that’s their daily life. Something like less than half of americans can afford a $1000 surprise bill. You’re not going to see anyone’s best showing when they’re worried about feeding themselves tomorrow.
Incidentally, republican policies suck and make more people scared, angry, and financially insecure.
I’ve seen a $2 and a $100 bill and even had a few, but where’d you get a $1000 bill? I’ve never seen one of those.
I really hope this is an on topic funny.
I might be getting wooshed because this is wordplay, but ‘bill’ in this context is used like ‘invoice’ or ‘expense’
Something like less than half of americans can afford a $1000 surprise expense.
Buy 4 new tires for your vehicle. All at once. Take a look at the vimes “boots theory of economic injustice” principal. 1000 seems extreme to you, but getting through the winter in certain parts can be sobering.
The point isnt the dollar figure, it’s the principal.
principle
It’s funny because a principle actually is a dollar figure when talking about finances.
It is old money, and not printed anymore. $1000 bills do exist, however.
They’re basically a collectors item these days. They haven’t been in circulation since the 60s or so. Grover Cleveland is the president on the $1000 bill.
this is the most reddit post i’ve seen on lemmy
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Stupid? Maybe if verifying “facts” is your sole metric. I know people who aren’t very media savvy who fall for some stupid propaganda, but they could empty my car’s engine bay and put it back together again and have it cranking the same day. Or you can drop them in any body of water in a 250km radius and they’ll know what fish can be caught there and be able to hook an edible-sized one in half an hour or less. We don’t all have the same skill sets, but we ain’t all “stupid”.
I’d argue given enough time and effort almost anyone can become a domain expert in specific things and do incredible stuff. What distinguishes smart people from simpler folks usually boils down to them having a very easy time processing new stuff, which includes the ability to filter noise and fact check.
I don’t like the term “stupid”, but there hasn’t been a whole lot of evidence supporting the idea that human intelligence is compartimented. Humans with high IQs tend to outperform in average at most of what they try. Low IQ probably means you will work harder and have to specialize to achieve the same degree of competency. This just my hot take, I’ve fallen into this rabbit hole before and read a lot on the origin of IQs tests. In the end, intelligence alone does not determine a person’s worth anyway.
To paraphrase George Carlin, by definition half of the population is below average intelligence. But nobody thinks they’re in that bottom half.
This is interesting to me though. Didn’t most people (at least in developed countries) take tests in school? Get grades? I would think if you did below average on those you kind of…should know that you’re in the bottom half?
I get that it’s possible to make changes after schooling, and grades are only somewhat reliable (in that they also rely on effort) but still.
You ever see the people who get As in school take an aptitude test? They don’t always get high scores.
And aptitude tests themselves are flawed and usually only measure certain quantities or qualities of intelligence, and are not really a great marker for general intelligence (this is including IQ tests which have a very racist origin and history)
Not to mention grades are about doing the work and having the discipline and organizational skills. There are plenty of people who are very intelligent, but lack both of those. US testing metrics (is that the right word?) are heavily flawed. This isn’t even bringing up the racist aspect of most institutions, including educational being headed up and formulated by white people.
I’m curious. Do you think “educational” being headed up and formulated by a black person would increase scores overall? Just within black children scores?
IQ tests were first developped because it seemed obvious not all students performed equally. On average a student that is good in a given discipline will also tend to do well in other unrelated disciplines. On average is the keyword here, outliers exist.
I think gifted students can easily tell what side of the curve they’re on, even though they might not want to acknowledge it. It is not even avout the grades, because gifted students also often learn early on that they can get away by doing the minimum amount of work and still get passing grades. So they’re not necessarily top of classes.
Gifted students get told they’re fast learner all the time, and they notice how everyone else seem to be progressing in slow motion. They know.
I think it gets harder to self-evaluate the closer you are to the average, since most of your peers will be more or less just as intelligent as you. Then, the dullest you are, and the less you can identify competense and the more likely you are to be over-confident.
I think in the end, most people will end up believing they’re above average because we tend to notice dumb people a lot. Ironically it is probably students who are just slightly above average who will have the most self-doubts, because they feel different from their peers, yet they can probably tell more gifted students are around.
Source: 50% my ass, 50% being surrounded by incredibly smart people who shared their personal experiences with me.
I dunno your country or your premise, but I can state pretty confidently that the American school system is completely and utterly failing to prepare Gen Z. Working adjacent to the schools, even amongst the best and brightest the country has to offer are thousands upon thousands of students who fundamentally do not know how to think for themselves about anything.
All this to say, depending on if you’re in the U.S., things might just keep getting worse. Especially if you’re living in a deeply conservative state, I would not be surprised if the number really was 90%. It’s really sad, but that’s what happens when you attack public schools for decades.
fundamentally do not know how to think for themselves about anything.
What’s sad is, that’s the point. That’s how they get prepared for the future.
A future where they work for their rulers and don’t cause controversy.
Saddest part is, their teachers who should be encouraging intrigue and free thought are usually the first ones to fight back against it in their classroom. All to make their job easier, lol.
All to make their job easier, lol.
Not a teacher, but what I keep reading is that they’re trying not to get pilloried by students’ screaming MAGA parents.
It’s not necessarily the teachers’ fault. Most of the teachers I’ve talked to legitimately want to help students. The issue is the administrations. I have school counselors who are refusing to write letters of recommendation for full-ride scholarships. Principals who don’t know what a pdf is. Testing coordinators who literally cannot read.
It infuriates me that most of the money that goes to schools ends up in the pockets of these administrative bureaucrats that do not care about children in the slightest. At best they are grossly incompetent, at worst they are actively malicious.
It’s definitely not their fault, per se.
They’re just doing their job. It’s how the system is set up.
The best teachers I’ve had were ones that routinely went outside of the curriculum to engage with students on a human level. But current trends in academia heavily discourage that.
See I don’t buy into this. To me, this is getting into seriously conspiracy theory stuff. I don’t think that there is some grand plan to keep people stupid so that they don’t cause trouble.
I think the system just fails at educating students well due to a variety of factors.
I think we live in an age where advertisements are literally gaslighting, and also where large portions of the population are bombarded with advertisements on a daily basis. I’m not surprised if people’s grip on reality gets a little wobbly, resisting all that propaganda is a lot of effort.
I think adblocking is the best thing I’ve done for my children.
Think about all those poor youtubers and the platform itself.
Lol obvious sarcasm, fuck 'm and the insane amount of ads that are nowadays considered normal.
That’s a lot more complex than people are stupid. Occam’s razor.
The fact that this post has more up- than downvotes is already an indication, that the majority seems to agree with you.
Everybody thinks that everybody else is stupid.
This exactly. Everyone also thinks they’re the best driver on the road and everyone else is an idiot. It’s good to humble yourself everyone now n’ then.
Just once I wanna see a dude do a bitchin’ flip on the highway (without it being an accident that results in a crash) and humble me. Is that so much to ask?
I usually feel like most people I talk to are smarter than me.
What you’re really saying is “other people aren’t as smart as me.”
I like xkcd but I feel like Munroe is being assumptive here, assuming “your expectations are based on you”. Are they?
Yeah, “stupid” is not defined around average intelligence. This whole panel is an example of a straw man fallacy to undermine someone saying “people are stupid”.
Sure, “stupid” isn’t defined around average intelligence, but “people” is defined around the average person. So, by saying “stupid” is not defined around average intelligence, you’re really criticizing the phrase “people are stupid”…
…which is exactly what this comic is doing
Saying “people are stupid” is the same as saying “the average person is stupid”. What’s hard to understand here?
Frankly, that is just a big pile of babble.
but “people” is defined [SIC] around the average person
There’s no “definition” here. The closest to what you said that would make some sense would be “but “people” implies a generalisation around the average person”, but it doesn’t work in your argument because it does not contradict what BananaTrifleViolin said. Nor it justifies your assumption that
by saying “stupid” is not defined around average intelligence, you’re really criticizing the phrase “people are stupid”…
I genuinely think that you did not understand what the other poster said, so I’ll repeat it under different words.
The comic has an implicit definition of stupidity as “lower than average intelligence” (see panel 2).
BananaTrifleViolin is highlighting that this is not the definition that people use for “stupid” when they say “people are stupid”. And that leads to a fallacy called “straw man”, where you misrepresent a position to beat it. Munroe (the cartoonist) is doing this, either by accident or on purpose. (It is not the first time he does this; his comic about free speech also shows the same irrationality.)
I don’t think most people are stupid if stupid means lacking reasoning skills or knowledge or curiosity. You can find all sorts of people who you’d think sound stupid but know tons about one subject. But even if they don’t, they likely have a working knowledge base and only know what they need to know.
What I consider stupid or problematic is that most people, probably 75% or more of the overall population, are not skeptical or analytical and have a fundamentally busted epistemology. Even if your information filter works, if you don’t understand why it works, I’m going to struggle in conversation with you. So yes I think the general population has a hard time thinking critically because they don’t know how to analyze their own beliefs or knowledge.
Your description fits my brother perfectly.
He has very little curiosity, hasn’t read more than 3 books in his entire life, strongly dislikes all forms of art (except shitty movies and TV-shows), isn’t capable of analytical or critical thinking and hasn’t got a clue how the political system works.
He apes the attitudes of his spouse and friends, so much that I’m not sure he even has any opinions of his own.
Yet this doesn’t bother him at all. He’s very happy being oblivious and he makes more than twice as much money per month than I do with my master’s degree. He is very good at what he does and I’m happy for him.
It would still be nice to be able to have a real conversation with him, instead of just stating the factual matters or laughing at some dumb jokes. If we both didn’t share such a strong resemblance of our dad I’d assume that my mom had an affair, beyond our appearance we have almost nothing else in common.
I feel like I personally make up for a lot of other people’s skepticism
There’s an old proverb I like about this: a person is smart but people are dumb.
People en masse tend to be dumber than they are apart. I think you’re comparing yourself to the faceless masses. It’s much more humbling to try comparing yourself to someone you respect (but don’t do it as a “I’m not as good as them” thing, only do it as a “goals to maybe achieve one day” thing to avoid accidentally trashing your self esteem)
Side note: old proverb here means I think my dad said it once but I have no idea where it actually came from
Tommy Lee Jones says this in Men in Black, no idea if it was coined before that though.
I choose to believe Agent K came up with it.
“The IQ of a mob is the IQ of its dumbest member divided by the number of mobsters.” (attributed to Terry Pratchett)
None of us is as dumb as all of us.
a person is smart but people are dumb.
Whoever says that pretty much qualifies as dumb in my book.
Collective deision-making is superior.
It depends. Group psychology like mass delusion is well known. Collective decision making works in specific circumstances where the majority have some idea about what the problem is.
Collective decision making works in specific circumstances where the majority have some idea about what the problem is.
So you’re saying that the only obstacle to effective collective decision-making is the withholdiing of relevant information?
I think you meant “the ability to learn” because you’re not getting better answers from groups of non-physicists about the geometries of black holes than from individual experts regardless of how much information you give them
individual experts
Sooooo… are you suggesting that individual physicists would be better off working in isolation? That must be what you are suggesting… since nothing that I have said suggested anything about groups of people making collective decisions about matters that are completely arbitrary.
Just linking to an article about collective decision making isn’t really that helpful without quoting the article for your points.
So that article you posted talks about animal behavior, and that an economic view on collective decision making is a good approach for animal behavior.
As motivated in the Introduction, our review has focused primarily on an economic view on collective decision-making. The economic view is a staple of behavioural ecology, and motivates the tools of optimal decision theory for the study of animal behaviour.
Nowhere did they make the conclusion that collecting decision making is superior, especially in the context of humans.
especially in the context of humans.
Were you not aware that humans are animals?
What you are observing is birds with clipped wings…
…now ask yourself, who would want a birds wings to be clipped in the first place? right. It’s those who seek to keep the chickens from regaining their freedom, and who seek to hurt them (slaughtering them/steeling their eggs/offspring).
TPTB don’t want an educated, sophisticated, thinking on their feet type of populace. Those would be impossible to rule and to exploit for your own selfish ends. TPTB carefully orchestrated the so called failure of our education.
Here is an example: “Ted Cruz vs Education”
In my experience, I have found the least intelligent people to also be the most vocal, which makes it look like they are overrepresented in the population.
They’re insecure about their intelligence but too prideful to admit when they don’t know something, even to themselves.
the only cure for that condition is showing them how stupid they are, so that everyone can see
this.
I would put more but it would mess up the comedy. anyway go to a public library and look at folks on the computers. If you are old enough you will remember that going to like a 7/11 or such there always seemed to be some crazy guy talking to himself. You never see them now because they are on the internet all day.
Is someone stupid because they don’t know how to change a light bulb? A tire? How to do laundry? How to cook a meal? Review a book? Write an essay? Manage a task?
It’s just skills people dont have that often make them look stupid to most people who have that skill. Especially when those tasks seem very trivial once you have that skill.
Being ignorant of something doesnt make someone stupid. But i do think being stupid often prevents you for fixing your ignorance
Just 2 cents of thought
Edit: forgot to say every single person on the planet us stupid at something or about something but we may never have the opportunity to find out
They’re stupid if they don’t know those things and refuse to learn them.
People are allowed to call others stupid and be right about it.
People aren’t committing some great sin by doing so.
The idea we are is the idea the willfully ignorant use to manipulate everyone else into accepting their selfish indolence and it needs to stop.
Part of the problem is how do you determine if someone is willfully ignorant, incapable of learning that skill, or has just never been put in a situation where they needed said skill.
You don’t have to determine it. They make it painfully, painfully obvious.
My friend just moved into a new house, and there are no light bulbs anymore. So changing light bulbs is on a trajectory to be like shoeing a horse.
I never did change a tire, but I have changed a wheel. However most new cars don’t even have a spare wheel.
A lot of older folks are actually less likely to know how to do laundry with modern textiles and dyes. The only complicated thing is sorting and that can actually be largely skipped now.
Anyway, 90% of people will agree that 90% of people are dumb, they just won’t agree on which 90%
Anyway, 90% of people will agree that 90% of people are dumb, they just won’t agree on which 90%
Wholeheartedly agree with this
I wouldn’t necessarily say ‘stupid’. But lacking in sufficient empathy? Fearful of different people (to the point of being irrationally hostile to them)? Feel entitled? Are smug and sanctimonious about their beliefs? Get to caught up on what other people do with their lives and want you control them?..
Then yes. Definitely.
I feel like 20% of people are stupid but they cause 80% of the annoyances in my life.
The Pareto principle is everywhere in life.
And now I’ve learned what that rule is called. Cheers.
