I’m on the market to buy a new laptop, and Lemmy has successfully coaxed and goaded me to give Linux a serious try.
I’ve never used *nix as my personal OS.
Which hardware/laptop do you recommend? And which OS to pair it with for a Linux newbie?
I’m a software engineer, and quit my job to pursue an MSc in AI. So my uses will be:
- programming
- study
- browsing lemmy
- gaming
Framework, System76, Slimbook and Tuxedo are great choices
Second framework. The upgradeable is unmatched… Except if you want to go from the 13inch to 16inch.
Framework
This. It’s awesome. I have the i7-1165G7 and my son has the newer intel one. I prefer the smaller one but the larger one has a dedicated GPU. This is all you need… everything is replaceable. But pick the size you most likely need
Another happy framework user. I have the AMD 13. The modularity allowed me to completely disassemble and clean/save the machine when my wife spilled an entire chai latte on a 1 week old computer. Fan can get a little loud, but the machine just works great and there’s a great community around it.
I was so close to buying a Framework and put Linux on it, but unfortunately my job requires me to use macOS, so I got a MacBook. I read a lot about the noise caused by the single fan, but the I’d say it’s worth it for the modular ports.
The MacBook’s are damn good though, so it’s not the end of the world for you.
Plus with Asahi they are pretty close to being a decent Linux machine too.
The M3 Pro doesn’t support Asahi yet :(
But I’m glad they got the HDMI output to work. I’m so excited for the release, I’m gonna install it as soon as it drops. I don’t necessarily need Thunderbolt, I just want some kind of video output. USB C display don’t work at this time. I also love their solution for audio: the speaker safety daemon as well as the audio preprocessor.
I’m so excited, Asahi will be great, especially soon with KDE Plasma 6.
Those GitHub links are pretty cool actually.
Framework seems nice but only 4 ports is a huge deal breaker.
I’d say System76 is the 2nd best choice.
Linux runs on literally anything. The hardware doesn’t matter too much these days, but which distro you pick does. I would say to just load a flash drive with a live image of a distro you think looks cool and see how you like it on a trial basis. Try a couple of them before you reqlly make a decision and then load the full image
The hardware doesn’t matter too much these days
WiFi, Bluetooth and Nvidia graphics have entered the chat
Fingerprint reader and webcam standing by
The proprietary Nvidia graphics drivers works pretty well in most distros. Just go to your distro’s driver manager and enable the proprietary driver.
Nvidia cards can still be tricky, especially on optimus laptops. It’s not nearly as problematic as it used to be, but I still run into occasional issues with it. If I ever buy a new computer for gaming, I’m going to go with AMD.
I did, and I’d do it again next time. You can eventually convince NVIDIA cards to go, but relatively, AMD just works.
Linux gaming on laptops in GENERAL can still be tricky
Source: have both optimus and advantage laptops.
AMD mobile graphics tend to sometimes have less hiccups, but for the most part you are still going to have to tell the program to use the dGPU.
I don’t mind telling the game to use a dedicated graphics card and I don’t mind tinkering in general, but I want the graphics driver to work as expected. For example my Nvidia optimus setup doesn’t always play nice with the external monitor and I’m currently dealing an issue where an nvidia specific setting is needed to get some games working, but that same setting causes issues in other games.
WiFi and Bluetooth yeah, if you run Linux mint setting up the proprietary drivers us literally like 2 buttons in the drivers menu
All distris that have GNOME look the same. Same for KDE. I wouldn’t go the looks cool route
Distro choice doesn’t matter too much. Even ubuntu if you ignore snaps
snaps
Gross.
I use manjaro xfce but i would reccommend fedora or mint if ya starting out. Fedora seems to just work most of the time hardware wise.
I have a very similar use case so here is my opinion.
HARDWARE
-No dGPU unless this is your PRIMARY gaming computer. (Reason: better battery life, lighter laptop, with recent AMD iGPU you have decent performance for non-VR/not massive openworld AAA games.)
-recent AMD CPU. (Reason: better performance to watt ratio than Intel which makes a big difference for most of your use cases. Better multi-core performance which makes compiling code much faster. Massively better iGPU for light-medium duty gaming.)
-atleast 16GB ram if not expandable but as much as you can reasonably budget.
-16:10 or taller aspect ratio screen (16:9 sucks on laptop size devices, the extra height makes a big difference for school, coding, browsing, pretty much everything but watching 16:9 movies)
-Resolution: personal preference. IMO 1080p or 1920*1200 for 16:10 is ideal for 14" and below laptops. Lower resolution means better battery and on a small screen the PPI is high enough. If you are OK with a trade off of battery life and want a super crisp display then 2K is the highest I would go. 4K is retarded on laptop sized screens unless you are plugged in 90% of the time and you’ll have to fuck with scaling then.
-metal body for stiffness and durability
-decent key travel (usually longer travel means better IME)
If you want to do machine learning/AI work professionally I use and recommend investing in a dedicated desktop with a large memory nvidia (cuda cores) GPU and installing the cuda drivers. Trying to cram commercially viable ai hardware into a laptop is a losing battle and you’ll end up with a worse experience for both use cases, wont be able to fit large models in the memory anyways, and end up buying a desktop for AI while being stuck with a laptop that is worse for laptop use)
SOFTWARE
#1 Nobara OS KDE - best OOB experience for gaming IMO. Easy transition from windows. Has kernel fixes and many laptop specific fixes (asusctrl for example) by default which means you have a good chance of extra features like LEDs, fingerprint, etc working without tinkering). Fedora based.
#2 Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE6) - best non-gaming distro to learn and grow into IMO. Access to deb packages. Stable. (nobara has been stable for me as well, but it is LMDE’s bread and butter). Ease of transition from windows. Can game just as well if you are capable of following simple instructions to configure the stuff done by default on nobara and pop (may need to manually change kernels, drivers, etc to get the best performance on new hardware)
#3 Pop_OS - used it for years, but I prefer Nobara after comparing. Ubuntu based so you have access deb packages without ubuntu’s bullshit. Setup out of the box for gaming. I got fed up with failed updates, broken packages, and sluggishness so I swapped to nobara which has been a treat.
EDIT: you can snag some good deals on amazon warehouse deals (used-like new) laptops. These are usually just open box returns and if there is anything wrong you have 30 days to return it.
I recently upgraded to an Asus vivobook S 14x OLED (M5402R) for $780 CAD ($580USD) with a ryzen 7 6800H, 16GB DDR5, a 1TB gen 4 nvme, and it has zero signs of use, slight coil whine under load that I can only hear if I put my ear next to the keyboard and don’t have any sound or music on (I suspect this was the reason for the return on mine since its a common complaint for this model. That’s what I was hoping for since I’m not that picky and its worth the steep discount IMO.) Everything works oob on Nobara. I believe lenovo also regularly heavily discounts their previous gen thinkpads which are a great option, although the AMD configs are rare. Good luck!
I can only argue with metal body here: that’d vary on model-to-model basis. I’ve had a few thinkpads made of plastic, and they’re fine after a few drops here and there, and hinges are alive and well, also I’ve seen some (mostly new-ish) laptops made of literal aluminum foil that are bent AF; what’s even worse, one wasn’t even what they call unibody, i.e. the frame was sandwiched of aluminum shell and a piece of crappy plastic with heat inserts for screws → after like a year of normal usage those inserts literally broke off with the surrounding plastic.
The latter one was some ultrabook by HP. Namedropping here 'cause I have some personal issues with their products, so, frankly speaking, fuck them in particular :)
I’d like to declare that HP sucks ass. That is all.
HP products are just always shit. I have a HP pavilion which was made of plastic, and it is basically unusable after 2 years of normal use. The plastic is the lowest quality crap I’ve ever seen.
HP products are just always shit. I have a HP pavilion which was made of plastic, and it is basically unusable after 2 years of normal use. The plastic is the lowest quality crap I’ve ever seen.
I just received a 2010 MacBook pro, but don’t like macos and the 2010 can’t support modern Mac. So, Linux. I installed budgie completely forgetting it was snap. I was planning to install LMDE. I’ve never heard Nobara OS, so will give it a shot first. Thanks!
Nobara is just Fedora with some tweaks.
I was reading their site after I posted, and saw that. I do love Fedora! It’s going on the MacBook. Hopefully the antiquated hardware can handle it smoothly. I’ve always got antiX lol.
I just want a modern AMD apu laptop with coreboot, slotted ram and multiple nvme slots, but like everything these days it would seem I’m asking for too much.
my current dell one has an amd cpu, slotted ram (no soldered on crap) and nvme + sata (with space for a drive); too bad the build quality and the touchpad sucks
my old lenovo one also had replacable slotted cpus (with Pentium 2020m pre-installed). The lid also just slid off (like on a rail), with only one screw needing removal, no flimsy plastic clips. I broke plastic part of the hinge on that one by just flipping it over, oh well.I miss the old days and what I thought the future of tech would be like back then…
I bought a lenovo p14s AMD 2 years ago without OS, 32GB RAM and M.2 SSD, very happy with Arch, BTW. Coreboot would be nice, but it doesn’t seem feasible yet…
Coreboot would be nice, but it doesn’t seem feasible yet…
Why not?
Modern CPUs, especially AMD. Correct me If I’m wrong !
Yeah, that’s incorrect. System 76 is producing machines with modern CPUs that use coreboot:
Nice , but my question was more if it possible to put it on other commercial machines, especially AMD one
That would be perfect.
My modded t440p goes with me everywhere until then. I have that IIRC core2 dell(?) armored laptop running fully blobless too but it’s just a server backing up my 2fa emergency keys and such things. It was a fun little side project building and flashing coreboot but the hardware is a bit dated these days. The t440p is good for anything other than gaming or 4k movies at least.
I’ve heard great things about system76, never had one of their laptops myself but still have the desktop I got in 2011 (Wild Dog Pro). I personally use the frame.work 13, and it has been working great with Arch installed. I do not recommend Arch, use something like PopOS, or LinuxMint.
I have been eyeing a framework laptop. Just curious how you use the modular ports in your case: do you have different ones you swap sometimes?
2 type c’s and 2 type A USB are in it 99% of the time. I have the HDMI, and display port modules but have rarely used them. I also keep the 2.5Gb Ethernet for when I break the WiFi to get back into the router, and a microsd for when I reflash my raspberry pi’s .
Is there any advantage to having extra ports over a dongle with all of those at once?
IMO, modular ports is not the main selling point for Framework. I was sold on their commitment to a platform that is repairable/upgradable.
Other than they fit nicely into a pocket in my backpack…no. The main reason I love their product is the reparability aspect, allowing me to swap ports is just a neat feature.
I guess that makes sense, I can still just put the dongle I already have for edge cases like plugging into a DisplayPort monitor, needing Ethernet, etc. Also I didn’t realize until someone else commented that they have extra storage ones, that would probably be one for me
I have a “typical” set of ports (2x USB-C, HDMI, USB-A) that’s on my laptop most of the time. I also have the 2.5GbE adapter that I use occasionally.
I assume for charging you have to have the USB C one, and have it on a specific slot?
I can’t speak for all of the models, but my AMD Framework 13 can charge on any slot. I really like being able to charge from either side of my laptop.
That’s actually nice little bonus!
I keep a copy of Windows installed on a storage card, saves from having to mess about with partitioning for dual booting.
Oh, they have extra storage cards, that’s pretty sweet actually
I was typing up a reply and realized this said most of what I was saying. The only thing I’d add is that support matters, popularity matters. Supported or popular HW platforms are less likely to have small random niggles than an off the shelf dell laptop. System 76 or tuxedo lines are ideal supported platforms. Think pads area super popular.
PopOS or Mint are as easy to use as ubuntu, but without being chained to snaps, which everyone is moving towards flatpaks except canonical
What generation of framework do you have?
Intel 11th gen. I was in the first few batches when it came out and haven’t had a need to upgrade, but love that I can if needed.
Oh man that’s the same as me! I’ve been having all sorts of issues with reliability with mine so I was curious if it was different generations. I guess I’m unlucky?
I’ve had no issues that weren’t caused by me, but I also have a pretty minimal setup.
Framework laptop 13
https://linuxpreloaded.com/ for a longer list
These are my favorites (EU based)
Tuxedo Computers can get you a very good dev laptop for ~1500€ (64GB RAM, AMD/Intel CPU, NVIDIA/AMD graphics card). If you will be working in AI, I imagine you’ll need CUDA (?) aka NVIDIA.
If you don’t go for anything on linuxpreloaded (which I wouldn’t recommend), it’s good to check whether what you’re buying has linux hardware support by checking the Linux Hardware DB. Even if you don’t look, it’ll probably work, but better safe than sorry if you’re going to dump 1/3 or 1/2 of your months salary into something (depending on where you are).For a distro, I dunno what level you are, but Distro Chooser can help you out with making a choice. My recommendations:
linux beginner
Linux mint. nice desktop environment, looks like a mashup between windows and mac, still missing advanced options, but quite customisable. comes with suitable standard software and cloud integrations (you can connect to a bunch of clouds), relatively up to date
Ubuntu is well-known, some proprietary companies even consider it “the linux” and only make linux versions for it. It’s quite stable. However, it isn’t my first recommendation anymore as they are going down a proprietary route. I’m not sure if they have ads yet, but wouldn’t surprise me if they started.
desktop environment
This is the desktop suite, a bundle of packages that work well together on any distro, with its own look and feel. There are basically 3 camps:
- windows look n feel
- KDE: is the most known, is very customisable, has an abundant amount of themes, icon sets, login screens, fonts, and a well-sized userbase. They prefix many app names with “K”. Ubuntu even has a distro version called “Kubuntu” with KDE on it
- Cinnamon: main user is Linux Mint
- LXDE and XFCE: look closer to windows 95 and windows XP, consume minimal resources. configuration is through the interface, advanced configuration through files
- mac look n feel
- Gnome: they are well known and source of flame wars (gnome vs KDE). windows don’t have title bars, things are very rounded, not very configurable, heavily mac inspired
- tiling window managers
- these aren’t desktop environments, but sit more in the middle, they manage windows. best to watch a video about tiling window managers. they are very geeky and perfect if you love using nothing but your keyboard
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- windows look n feel
Check out the Framework 16. Ubuntu and Fedora are officially supported. I run Debian on my Framework 13 no problem.
I have a framework. Hands down the best laptop I’ve ever worked with/on.
Any used ThinkPad will be an incredible value with Linux installed.
just be careful about those thinkpad chromebooks
Esp32
😂 can I also run Doom on it?
Of course it can…
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/rQdX9u-WM2M?si=LIAM2URRXvnh7nMQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I woke up my wife in bed laughing…
It’s real though, https://github.com/ESP32DE/Boot-Linux-ESP32S3-Playground
I know you can do it, it’s just a really tiny laptop 🤣.
A tiny PC you say… https://hackaday.com/2021/01/18/a-miniature-vt102-running-a-miniature-pdp11/
Which distro makes you wanna rent a penguin and smash your monitor with an apple? What would you reocmmend?
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minty
I hear good things about Tuxedo computers. I might give one a try when I’m in the market again. I usually point people at Pop! OS and Mint or something Fedora based if they are into immutable file systems. I personally use Fedora Kinoite and love it. It’s super easy and doesn’t break.
uhh ThinkPad yes ThinkPad ThinkPad is linux THINKPAD PENGUIN
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fine print: oh yea also framework
Which ThinkPad?
We use about seven ThinkPad T16 and P16s professionally with zero issues. Can recommend
Edit: the AMD versions, those generally work better with Linux
I’ve been rocking a first gen X1 Yoga (6th gen intel) for like 5-6 years, three or so of those years I’ve been using Pop!_OS and its been pretty good. I suspect that a 6th gen intel may be a little lacking for your uses, just to say that most ThinkPads will be good.
yes
Rocking E15 Gen2 with AMD CPU for about 3 years now, can’t complain besides the fucking fingerprint reader having proprietary drivers (thus not working on Linux).
So, the E model line is a nice work laptop with basically no GPU performance whatsoever.
System76 and Framework
Get some live distro first and check it out without installation. You will be able to test some basic desktop environments very easily. Most of the distros will have live image. Even better run it in a virtual machine and play around. Test KDE, Gnome, Cinnamon and XFCE. Look at some themes and plugins. I think customizing your desktop is a nice, visual way to see how flexible it all is and get the feel of how configuration files work. If you will like what you can achieve with a bit of work you will just keep going. If you will find it ‘stupid and useless’ it’s probably not for you.
