cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15995282
Real unfortunate news for GrapheneOS users as Revolut has decided to ban the use of ‘non-google’ approved OSes. This is currently being posted about and updated by GrahpeneOS over at Bluesky for those who want to follow it more closely.
Well that’s bad. I’ve been using revolut for years now.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a new bank that’s operating under european law?
N26 maybe?
Most banks restrict custom ROM and root access devices for security purposes. Same with MFA apps. I get it. From an IT security perspective, restrictions on software compatibility limit the number of failure points. Even if you find a custom OS that is more secure as an OS, it is installed through opening up your device to security risk and there is no real requirement for you to close up that security risk afterward. My company has made the same choice to restrict supported platforms for our services.
McDonald’s app restricting the OS is probably some security decision they made because it’s more secure even when they probably don’t need it though.
It’s not your job to secure my device. It’s your job to provide the service I’m paying you for.
Perhaps WISE? You can use the web page unlike Revolut.
Wise isn’t a bank, but it does appear to be the best option in EUR
Wise has a banking license in Belgium much like Revolut has one in Lithuania.
Wise is missing some cool things Revolut has like metal cards that require you to use an expensive plan, or the ability to buy stocks and crypto.
What Wise has instead, is the ability to have both a REAL American AND European bank account in the same app, which you can instantly transfer money between. Revolut doesn’t give you an American bank account if you’re in Europe, idk if they give you an European bank account if you’re in the US. But Wise has both.
Why is this so important? Well let’s say you’re in Europe, you land a side gig doing a bit of work for a big US corporation you’re connected to through your old job. You’ve got your rate negotiated, everything’s sweet. And then they hit you with the question: “Are you able to take ACH payments?”
Now you have to google what an ACH payment is. Then you have to find out how to be able to receive them. Turns out these are internal to the US. Banks outside of the US just don’t accept them, because they’re not part of the system. But wait! Wise actually gives you an actual US bank account complete with routing numbers and everything. In your name, not in some proxy’s name either.
Yes I sound like an advertisement at this point, but it’s ridiculous how useful this gets if you need to move money internationally. I didn’t get all the hype before I needed it, but when I did, it fit my use case like a glove.
I have wise accounts both as a US entity and a EU entity. They give you EU IBAN and US ACH accounts no matter which side of the Atlantic you’re registering from.
They’re the best bank ive found in the EU too, but I didn’t think they were a bank. Its important because a US not-a-bank just collapsed and a lot of people lost their life savings. The not-a-bank assured customers that their money was safe because it was being stored in actual bank’s bank accounts. This would have been true, but the not-a-bank misplaced almost all their funds and, turns out, they weren’t in their partners’ bank accounts. Whoops.
Turns out it’s not an actual bank in the EU either, they just give you an IBAN number and everything.
However, funds in EU are still insured at 20k per account and since they’re not a bank, they can’t be giving out subprime mortgages using your money like banks do, they have to keep it as safe as possible.
Yeah but if they’re not regulated like s bank then they could do the same thing and “misplace” funds so they’re not stored in their partners banks, and you then have 0 insurance, right?
Why would anyone load an app from McDonalds? You want to give them elevated access to your most personal data for a few dollars of coupons?
What are they taking from you that’s worth more than the discounts they are giving you? Because they are definitely making a profit, or they wouldn’t be doing it.
We are definitely in the era where people think discounts before user privacy. I bet most of people downloading the Mcdonald app do it exactly because of cheeper prices and easy of access.
just had medium fries and coke. many people i know, including myself, use the mcd app because of the discounts it offers when ordering through the app. however, i am under the impression that since i use an ios device and have the option to decline being tracked by the app—which i very eagerly press “no” to—i am on the safe side. am i?
No, Apple isn’t your guardian angel with the press of a button.
Apple does extensive audit of mobile apps, including limitations of tracking. So the app cannot spy on something you are not letting it to know. But you are giving it a bunch of info voluntarily.
I’d say using that app on iOS is similar to making a food delivery order using a loyalty member ID. Basically, you are letting the company (McDonald’s) know who you are, what is your phone number, where do you live, and what do you like to eat. And if they wish to, they could use all that to purchase your profile from a data brocker. Or they can sell that info for a few cents to make up on that discount.
just had medium fries and coke. i and many i know use the mc D app because of the discounts it gives when i order through my app.
just had medium fries and coke. i and many i know use the mc D app because of the discounts it gives when i order through my app.
just had medium fries and coke. i and many i know use the mc D app because of the discounts it gives when i order through my app.
How did you manage to post the same comment 4 times? 🙃
It always seems that with finance we take 2 steps forward and 1 step back. That’s why Bitcoin will never stop existing.
Apparently, they don’t need my business. Acceptable.
Would not updating Revolut keep the app compatible as long as you don’t sign out?
If so, don’t update the app and write down the build number of the last app version which worked on GrapheneOS. That way you would have a bit more time to sort things out.
They constantly force you to update or the app won’t work. I was already having issues with Revolut on GrapheneOS so I just closed my account and switched to Wise. The Revolut app was a bloated mess anyway.
Guess I’ll have to follow suit, because I’d love to switch to graphene OS
Yupp thinking about doing the same, but want to wait a little to see if wise decides to do the same…
Webapps everything you can like I do with Firefox and ublock origin. Fuck these assholes.
Not for Revolut. App only.
They do have a web app, it’s just very feature limited https://www.revolut.com/blog/post/introducing-the-revolut-web-app/
Like you can’t even pay people money kind of feature limited
not really. services make the mobile site unusable. example:
- facebook: nags you to use the facebook app with popups and large banners
- facebook messenger: does not even let you to log in
Fuck Facebook. I left that shithole in 2015.
But like, why?
Fuxk u
He makes a solid point
Can Graphene add a feature to run in emulation mode to allow apps to believe it’s on an unrestricted OS?
Unfortunately, this is probably because of the apps started using the Play Integrity API, which is a hardware-based attestation and can only be faked in two ways that GrapheneOS isn’t interested in:
- you can fake an older device that didn’t support hardware attestation yet, or had a broken implementation
- or you can try getting leaked vendor keys and emulate the crypto with those until they get revoked
Are there any checker apps to see which of user’s installed apps have this? Looking up “Play Integrity API” only finds the checkers for the phone itself…
So, uh, the next version of GrapheneOS will probably come with some Android OS version spoofing tech that solves this - if there isn’t something on F-Droid already.
I mean remote attestation is cryptographically secure (unless there’s some temp implementation vulnerability).
No it won’t. Or at least they said on BlueSky that if there had been a work around for this they would have solved it already.
What aboit downloading thw app feom Aurora Store? I think that would solve most of the problems
How would that change anything?
Revolut seems to continue working as of now on my PIxel 7. I’m transferring the money out just in case. Any idea when are they going to stop them from working?
Stops working if you log in and out of your account. At least this is what GrapheneOS folks stated on BlueSky.
Next update
3 shites dropped.
This sounds like an antitrust legal problem…
The GrapheneOS team is already talking to regulators: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/112539378681400395
Well, Google is known for destroying its opposition.
This has very little to do with Google. Custom OS’s in general are being restricted by these apps, not Graphene in particular. All custom OS’s and root access devices are inherently less secure, even if they are privacy focused OS’s.
In IT this is called a zero trust. You don’t trust anything you cannot verify yourself. And a user installed OS is not something anyone can verify other than the installing user. Obviously for your own security you have your own zero trust policy if you are using something like Graphene, but these companies aren’t making it more secure for you as a user, they’re covering their asses in case there are holes in security they cannot account for.
I had Custom OSs installed before. My bank works fine, but there are apps that require Google Apps. I’d say that’s got pretty much to do with Google.
You’re implying that Google is causing these apps to not support custom OSs. But it’s literally not true. These apps are just not supporting custom OSs because their businesses don’t want to support non-standard platforms for security purposes. Tons of banks do not support custom OSs. It has nothing to do with Google and everything to do with not trusting the user which is 100% the correct approach for cyber security.
Got it. So it’s something similar to latest security proposals like not letting me download files on Windows because they are not normally downloaded. Or visiting a website with self signed certificates. So it’s more secure.
The apps complain: “You need Google Play services to use this app”.
So it’s about security. Right. What kind of security does McDonaldss need? Does it need security for their coupons?
Besides that, I thought payment gateway provided very good security by themselves.
But let’s steer from what happens on mainstream apps a little.
Isn’t Google Wallet or Online payments insecure too? Don’t they have tons security failures also? Human security failures, like if someone robs my phone and my info they would have access to my money?
Google and the smartphone industry employ accelerometers and other methods to make sure robbers can’t get to the system. They admit themselves that the systems aren’t safe and they’re working on AI and electronic methods to avoid access to sensitive information.
Is this the security you’re talking about? Maybe we should just steer the industry another way, like those Custom OSs do. Alternatives aren’t security potential threats. They’re the solution for the problem.
Making a monopoly based on making it “safe” isn’t secure at all.
It’s not for your security. It’s for the company’s security. You’re really dense you know that. This is not about you and it’s not about Google. What I’m saying is, people suck ass. So to protect themselves from people sucking ass, they restrict access to their system to their terms. Completely fair if you ask me.
You can go cry Google bad all you want. I might even agree Google is bad. But this is not a Google thing. It’s an IT security thing. The banks and MFA providers are security first businesses. They will make the decision that protect them first and it makes sense for them to do so. If you owned a bank, there is a high likelihood you would make similar decisions that end users don’t quite understand.
As far as McDonald’s is concerned, who the fuck knows what their developers are doing. That app is trash anyways.
perhaps dial back the attitude a bit there? if you think you know better than someone (even if you’re wrong), then you should have no trouble kindly educating instead of insulting them.
you may also wish to revisit your highly questionable claim that graphene properly configured on pixel is less secure than stock rom on some random android device.
It’s not questionable at all to assume that a user rooting and installing their own OS is a security risk. That’s the entire premise of zero trust. I’m sure Graphene OS is secure and better for user privacy when configured properly. But you can’t trust that an end user will configure it properly. That’s what I am saying and have been saying since the first message. You can’t trust the user to be security minded. Ultimately, the best thing you can do as a developer or a business is support a known quantity of software and hardware configurations and that likely means only supporting OEM installed ROMs.
Just run PWA instead no?
For Revolut? Unlikely, their website forces you into using the app.
The others sure, i guess, but i don’t see the user overlap.It’s a mobile app only. The web interface is strictly for managing your account, last I checked.
