I think your average geek used to be like, somewhat academic and erudite and into arcane knowledge and had some level of good faith of wanting to engage in discussion
Now it’s all frauds and absolutely braindead elon stans and crypto dipshits and conservative freaks and people who enjoy and defend watching big tech destroy everything.
Nothing happened to them. Those guys are still exactly the same.
The difference is that there’s a ton of money in that sector now so a bunch of greedy assholes moved in and now look like they’re the folks actually doing tech stuff.
Oh also, there’s always been a fair amount of legitimately crazy among tech people (we’re strange folk) and those voices get more amplification due to the idiots at the top.
It’s been true for a while now that if you speak with confidence people will listen to you.
It happens in every industry: the passionate people who got in it for the love of the field get replaced by the people who got in it for the lucrative business opportunity. Experts get replaced by salesmen.
The MBAs relentlessly seek power and money. I worked many years for a large hospital system that I watched transform from clinician-run, with nurses, doctors, and social workers in almost all leadership positions, to MBA-run, with people with no clinical experience in almost all leadership positions. Everything just got worse and worse over time as decision after decision was made that compromised clinical integrity in favor of saving a few dollars. I don’t work there anymore
That accurately describes just about every industry and business in America. MBAs are the most overrated educational path in the world. The characteristics of a leech in human form.
To be fair, there are some very interesting concepts around large organizations from how they grow to how they communicate and things like that.
That said - yeah.
See also:
- Intel
- Boeing
- GM
- HP
Wall Street Profits Uber Alles
I have a weird optimism that grassroots tech might make a comeback after everything enshitifies. I got on here 6 months ago and it was so refreshing.
When things shifted from being proud of server uptimes to being proud of constant push notifications and constant pointless updates, that’s when the tide turned. Engineers lost, MBAs won, and now customers suffer. It’s all subscriptions and lootbox mentality now.
I’m guessing somewhere around 2010, but it was a gradual relentless process.
Engineers lost, MBAs won
This is sadly so, so true. (from an engineer)
Speaking of enshittification, I brought my nephew to an arcade last weekend as a birthday treat. I’m not going to get into the whole “the games are just cell phone games on gigantic screens”, there are a handful of games that are still fun and worth the tokens to play. But the worst thing I didn’t expect to see was this motorcycle racing game. It was your standard sit-and-lean motorcycle game with a throttle etc. But the surprise was that after swiping the card to play, after you choose your motorcycle, you get the option to swipe again for extra boosts. There were micro transactions. In the arcade motorcycle game. I was so mad.
Didn’t games have “pay money to get extra lives” since forever?
Sure, but paying extra for more turbo boosts in the one race that you get to play is something new. Normally if you want extra boosts you need to learn the course or the game. On that same subject, now if you come in 1st place, you don’t even get to continue. (old man voice) back in my day, when you game in 1st place you got to go onto the next race. That was the point of getting good at the game.
What I think a lot of people fail to put together, is that this is the end-game of the early ideologies of the internet. The ideologies of the tech nerds now are directly descended from earlier, more decentralized ideologies.
Think about internet piracy and the change from Napster to Bittorrent.
In the tech world, even since the early days, tech was seen as a way to route around bad laws. In the early days, copyright laws were viewed as overly draconian (they are, but that’s not the point), so piracy flourished by routing around the legal framework.
What has happened is the power and wealth of some people with those ideologies have grown so big, they now view all laws that prevent them from doing whatever the hell they want as “bad laws to route around.” That’s why you have Musk buying Twitter and forcing his opinion’s down everyone’s throat (routing around traditional media). That’s why you have Jack Dorsey dumping his money into Nostr, because he thinks the worst sin on the internet is censorship (routing around attempts to rein in disinformation/misinformation).
It can be seen at OpenAI where they knowingly used books3 to initially train their AIs, which was well known to have been sourced from piracy. OpenAI doesn’t care about the provenance of the data as long as they can legally route around the copyright issue and make a fuckton of money in the process.
Anyway, it’s a deeply libertarian ideology that was accidentally spurred from earlier, more anarchist ideologies, within the tech community. I would peg tech nerds from the 90s as more anarchist, and tech nerds of the modern era as having bought into the technolibertarianism that began to grow out of it.
Like Steve Wozniak is your standard real tech nerd from the 70’s who was the actual engineer behind Apple products, while Steve Jobs was literally the marketing guy yet only the marketing guy got remembered.
You emphasized the words well known but provide no links to back that up because I’ve never known
https://huggingface.co/datasets/defunct-datasets/the_pile_books3
This dataset is Shawn Presser’s work and is part of EleutherAi/The Pile dataset.
This dataset contains all of bibliotik in plain .txt form, aka 197,000 books processed in exactly the same way as did for bookcorpusopen (a.k.a. books1). seems to be similar to OpenAI’s mysterious “books2” dataset referenced in their papers. Unfortunately OpenAI will not give details, so we know very little about any differences. People suspect it’s “all of libgen”, but it’s purely conjecture.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220522050247/https://huggingface.co/datasets/the_pile_books3
I emphasize “well known” because it was literally in the description when it was initially uploaded to the internet. It was always right out in the front that this was all the ebooks from private torrent tracker Bibliotik. Shawn Presser/books3 never lied about where it came from. As you can see with the archive.org link, that description about it’s sourcing was on the page in May 2022.
Bibliotik is a well known private tracker for ebooks and even peddles tools for removing DRM from ebooks. So, arguably, not only are the books pirated, but at some point, a DMCA criminal violation occurred when the DRM was stripped from them. So OpenAIs willingness to use it without question to get their company started should be evidence they’re not concerned about where the data came from or getting it in more legal ways.
Thank you for the links and reading!
I’m a technerd from the late 90s and early 00s. We’re all still here living our best lives, making money off the newest hypes, and then going home to chat on IRC and fiddle around with our old, soulful protocols.
This, but be safe. Wrap it up (in TLS)
There’s always been frauds and dipshits. I had a front row seat to the dot com boom and bust and it was not dissimilar to the bollocks going on now. Except the richest people made OS/hardware (Gates, Allen, Dell) or were traditional investors (Buffet)…
There’s a difference between tech geeks and tech bros.
The tech bro is selling you NFT web 3.0 AR experiences, the tech geek might be learning Docker to self host a Lemmy instance, not because he needs to, but because it’s fun.
Both have always existed: one was selling you some horrendous domain during the .com bubble, a plot of land on Second Life or even a perfect marriage based on a secret algorithm running on his Commodore 64, the other was busy playing muds and learning how to make free calls by ringing weird tones into a public telephone.
Steve Wozniak was the tech geek
Steve Jobs was the techbroExactly.
Wozniak did the real work, he was an actual computer engineer and programmer.
Jobs was literally the fucking marketing guy who made his entire career about how marketing guys ruin companies.
Yeah, he really ran Apple into the ground. You barely hear about them today. 😔
Ruined doesn’t have to mean “made not financially successful”. Like… see all of enshittification to see why that notion is ridiculous.
Found the techbro
“wealth = virtue”
I’m not saying that at all.
You guys need to calm down 😂.
Aaron Swartz was the tech geek That jackass sp*z is the tech bro.
:(
Rip Aaron
Playing muds
This guy fucks 🫡
In VR
Can we discuss how the ladies look gigantic in VR porn or are we all just going to keep watching it?
All I wanna do
Is see you turn into
A giant woman
with a box of scraps?
Crypto bros aren’t the geeks, they’re the popular kids who did well by cheating and copying off other people’s work. None of them actually helped make anything even vaguely useful, they memorized enough technical jargon to sound convincing and got lucky betting on digital ponzi schemes.
Sounds like marketing
If all you’re seeing are crypto bros, it says more about the media you consume. Serious technologists / engineers are out there, keeping the lights on.
It’s a tale as old as Capitalism. People who geek out about something do it because they enjoy it, then somebody finds a way to improve distribution of their work and suddenly there’s a skyrocket in demand. Vultures swoop in and suck out whatever life might be left in their passionate work to make it profitable, and then all the passion is gone.
“Tech bro” is the term used to describe those vultures. People who try to monetize the shit out of everything with an ounce of human soul in it. Passionate tech nerds are still out there, mostly in FOSS circles, some in hardware hobbyist circles building cool form factors for their own computers.
Honestly, odds are you’ll find passion only in someone who’s not looking to monetize.
I think it’s important to note the difference between “make a living to keep things going” vs. “I want to make ‘fuck you’ money.”
I have no problem with people who make a good product and seek donations or sell their product at a reasonable price.
Hell, take uBlock Origin. I’d easily pay $10 / month for this but they do not want money. So I do what they request and donate to the people who make the filters.
This is the first year in perhaps a decade I won’t be giving to the Mozilla Foundation because they are enshittifying their product. I wrote to them and told them why I won’t be donating. I don’t know if it will make a difference but I’m keeping an eye on them over the next year.
Tech bros like Bill Gates used open source communities like an all-you-can-monetize buffet to build a closed operating system. The rest is history.
What open source was in Windows?
I don’t have time to verify if the answer is in this link but it seems to be relevant
“Microsoft, a tech company historically known for its opposition to the open source software paradigm, turned to embrace the approach in the 2010s. From the 1970s through 2000s under CEOs Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, Microsoft viewed the community creation and sharing of communal code, later to be known as free and open source software, as a threat to its business, and both executives spoke negatively against it.”
[emphasis added]
Bill Gates’ primary quest was to destroy open source right from day 1. See “Hackers” by Steven Levy for more.
yeah he bought dos and im pretty sure even the folks at that company did not have open source on the radar with what stallman was doing. Maybe by late nineties but if anything they resisted it. Kept on doing versions of open standards with a spin so that they would not interoperate correctly.
people still arguing about how much of MS-DOS was copied from CP/M
that would have nothing to do with open source though.
Just an example, in 2020, Microsoft acquired npm, the Node Package Manager.
Definitely not relevant to the late 80s
I’m not seeing you specify the late 80’s as your reference timeframe anywhere here.
OP really is mixing metaphors is the bigger issue. Microsoft didn’t build their OS on Open Source, they only embraced it later, after getting in trouble for Embrace Extend Extinguish. Google built their OS on open source tech. Then more recently Microsoft followed the same path forged by Google.
That’s when Microsoft built Windows, so I’m assuming that’s the period OP is referring to
deleted by creator
What open source was in Windows?
You’ll never know, if they get their way.
Tech geeks have actual autism.
Tech bros microdose so they can pretend they have autism.
You left out the autists who microdose so they can see into the matrix
how do I get someone else tested for autism
Start leaving information about trains out for them and see if they bite
It’s kind of a joke, but ask about how they arrange their sock drawer.
What’s the autist’s answer to that question?
Any answer other than “huh?” is a dead giveaway.
“Actually, I don’t have a system because the time it takes me to pick a valid pair of socks is…” is as autistic an answer as “Left-to-right by increasing wavelength color, dark colors in the back” or “All socks are paired up and perpendicular for easy overview”.
I am learning from Lemmy lately that being clean and organized means:
I am gay
I am autistic
Well congrats on your new obsessively gay life lol
Well congrats on living in filth you hetero ableist fuck lol
A real tour de force of systems theory.
What does it say about me that I only buy two kinds of socks: black Carhartt work socks and white Hanes ankle socks, so the drawer is just divided into two piles?
Pick your favorite tech company, pick a small team with a “nerdy” engineering mandate, and I’m confident you’ll find the academic, geeky science and engineering types you’re talking about.
They probably aren’t very vocal though, because 1) there’s a huge PR/marketing budget which is responsible for being the face of the company, and 2) well…these are nerdy STEM folks who probably like their job because they get very well compensated to be nerdy STEM types, and not because they’re fanboys/girls.
That sounds not much different from the tech bros back then. The vast majority of them were always posers. Anyone with any talent has made their money by now and dropped out of the rat race, the rest of them are either in middle management or drunk themselves to death.
apple started with stuff done by woz. googles algorithims came from their founders. gates bought but put a lot into it. hardware companies where engineering firms. google is the only one where its product was not bought and owned by the user (mostly) but they basically set the stage for flipping the whole thing on its head with the user being the product. this further set the stage for the idea is that if you get the people into your ecosystem then it will be to hard to compete as people are lazy and don’t want to change. this lead to emphasis not being on the tech but instead on building the monopoly.
Microsoft in the late 90s was an acquisition machine, but the roots of Microsoft were 100% Bill Gates and Paul Allen being computer savants legitimately trying to push the boundaries of human technology past is limits.
What are you smoking, and where can I get some?
Not to diss Gates or Allen, but neither is a savant of any kind.
Their first product was a BASIC interpreter for a very early Microprocessor, which they wrote without ever getting their hands on the hardware (because the Altair 8800 was basically vaporware at the time, with no software there was no demand), and Paul Alien wrote the bootloader for the program on the flight to the product demonstration.
Frankly, that sounds like legit computer wizardry to me. Yes, they made their billions on business more than tech, but they were legit tech guys at the start.
Legit tech guys, sure.
You called them “computer savants legitimately trying to push the boundaries of human technology past is limits” [sic] in the previous comment and that is what I was calling out.
You sounded like an awed cultist talking about their leader!
. . . and forcing people to pay, through relentless licensing schemes.
What they created wasn’t great, it was standard fare. Their “genius” was in ruthlessly demanding you didn’t own what they made, you only got to run it by paying tribute. It worked.
Other systems and hardware from that era were either absorbed or destroyed because microsoft becamse a monopoly quickly, and used that power to do so.
