See the post on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/provisionalidea.bsky.social/post/3lhujtm2qkc2i
According to many comments, the US government DOES use SQL, and Musk is not understanding much what’s going on.
Sounds like he got confused looking at a view of a join.
SELECT holder_name, amount FROM account JOIN transaction ON transaction.account_id=account.id; -- WTF!! THERE'S DUPLICATES!!!I’m sure folks on here know this, but you know, there’s also that 10K a day that don’t so…
What makes this especially funny, to me, is that SSN is the literal text book example (when I was in school anyway) of a “natural” key that you absolutely should never use as a primary key. It is often the representative example of the kinds of data that seems like it’d make a good key but will absolutely fuck you over if you do.
SSN is not unique to a person.
They get reused after death, and a person can have more than one in their lifetime (if your id is stolen and you arduously go about getting a new one).Edit: (See responses) It seems I’m misinformed about SSNs, apologies. I have heard from numerous sources that they are not unique to a person, but the specifics of how it happens are unknown to me.And they’re protected information due to all the financials that rely on them, so you don’t really want to store them at all (unless you’re the SSA, who would have guessed that’d ever come up though!?)
It’s so stupid that it would be hilarious if people weren’t dying.
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I’m hardly the king of databases, but always using a surrogate key (either an auto-incremented integet or a random uuid) has done me pretty well over the years. I had to engineer a combination of sequential timestamp with a hash extension as a key for one legacy system (keys had to be unique but mostly sequential), and an append-only log store would have been a better choice than an RDBMS, but sometimes you make it work with what you have.
Natural keys are almost always a bad idea though. SSNs aren’t natural, which is one pitfall: implicitly relying on someone else’s data practices by assuming their keys are natural. But also, nature is usually both more unique than you want (every snowflake is technically unique) and less than you’d hoped (all living things share quite a lot of DNA). Which means you end up relying on how good your taxonomy is for uniqueness. As opposed to surrogate keys, which you can assure the uniqueness of, by definition, for your needs.
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SSNs are not reissued after death and never have been. I’ve been seeing a lot of people comment this, but I’m not sure where they’re getting it from. (They’re not unique for other reasons, however.)
Small correction to an otherwise great explanation: SSNs are not recycled after death.
**Q20: *Are Social Security numbers reused after a person dies?*****A: No. We do not reassign a Social Security number (SSN) after the number holder’s death. Even though we have issued over 453 million SSNs so far, and we assign about 5 and one-half million new numbers a year, the current numbering system will provide us with enough new numbers for several generations into the future with no changes in the numbering system.
“Several generations” well that is fucking garbage
Nah. It’s worked for 50 years and if we get another 30 then it’s done its job well. Government is supposed to review and adjust things as time goes on and Social Security Numbers weren’t intended to uniquely identify citizens. They probably expected an overhaul to be done by 2020.
They fact that we haven’t reworked portions of it and rely on SSNs to identify citizens shows that we haven’t had a forward-thinking Congress in the last 20 years at minimum.
The entire number is garbage. Change the last digit and you have randomly guessed a perfectly valid SSN.
Less secure than a gift card
Well, it’s an identifier, your problem if that you have been using it as some kind of access key
You can guess a phone number as well by changing the last number, but that information has 0 value unless it is coupled with other informations.
You can reverse engineer a good bit of an SSN if you just have someone’s birth date and where they were born.
I am not sure if you are agreeing with me or not, but DOB and location where you were born are additional informations as I mentioned in my replie before.
Oh yeah I agree that just getting a SSN is not a big issue itself but the fact that you can reverse engineer it from known information makes it not a very good security measure to prove identity.
well tbf, the standard coming from computing is doubling the bits until it stops being a problem, or with ipv6 practically having more IPs than there are atoms in the entire planet of earth (i think i did the calculation a while ago, and it was like, most of the atoms in earth, so like, not quite, but for all intents and purposes, might as well be)
According to XKCD about 40% of the earth
yeah that sounds about right, someone should make an XKCD search engine i think.
So they’ve issued almost half the possible numbers, current US population is actively using 1/3rd of them. I think unless there is a major drop in birth rates “several generations” is two. Either my great grandkids will be reusing dead people SSNs or there will be 10 digit numbers which is going to be a problem for any systems that coded it as char(9).
Thanks for (starting to) explain this concept to people not accustomed to how the US does their shit.
See, where i live, we used to have for example a Tax-Number. That was a thing the taxdepartment used to identify a person. But if you move from city a to city b, that numbers changes. So if you move a lot, you will have numerous of these.
Now, some 15 years back, the Tax-ID was introduced (fellow residents at this point will lnow it might be Germany) and this number is a one-in-a-kind ID that will only be assigned to you. They create it shortly after birth. My sons first registraion ID was this, before anyrhing else. You will also get a uniqie healthcare-ID that also works like that.So…how does that work in the US and why is habing a changing number that is not unique helpful? Or what is Elon not getting? I dont get it either because I dont know how this works for you.
Thanks in advance to shed light on this.
It doesn’t. There is no truely unique ID in the US.
Source: myself. Worked on health insurance and it was hell.
It’s wild too. I’ve been in the hospital a lot lately and in addition to a bar-code wristband, every healthcare worker, before doing anything with me (the patient) will ask my full name and either birthday or address and then double-check it against the wrist band. This is to make sure, at every step, that they didn’t accidentally swap in some other patient with the same name. (Not so uncommon, lots of men have their father’s name.)
Meanwhile in like Iceland, everyone gets assigned a personal GPG key at birth so you can just present you public cert as identification, not to mention send private messages and secure your state-assigned crypto-wallet. Not saying such a system is without flaw but it seems a lot better than what we’re doing!
You want them to do that regardless of the how the country keeps track of individuals. The point of all that asking is to make sure they have the right patient for the right procedure.
You don’t want to have something amputated or removed unless you have to.
This has happened many times. In the last city I lived in, a man went in to have a leg amputated and they got the wrong one, so he ended up with zero legs.
This is a joke right? I really really hope that they aren’t trusting randoms to know how to manage a gpg key properly.
It’s hard enough to get people actually interested in it to do it correctly.
And using gpg to constantly identify yourself would mean needing to keep multiple copies of your private key all over the place. I find it unlikely that regular people are issuing new keys and revocation certs properly. Not to mention having canonical key servers (maybe the government could manage that, but the individual is responsible for maintaining a way to get the canonical most up to date key)
Using gpg backfires because if you lose access to the key or it’s compromised (say by putting it on your phone) you lose everything. They work for people who know what they are doing because you are supposed to issue keys for specific tasks and identities, but there is just no way that that is happening.
I’m being sarcastic but not by much. Nordic countries do have much better digital id systems and the EU overall looks to be following their model.
This is the first I’ve heard something like that about Iceland; but I do know a little bit about Icelandic personal ID numbers.
The SSN is supposed to just be a number that you give your employers and the IRS so that your social security (the USs blanket retirement savings/pension system) contributions get logged correctly to you and then when you retire you can use that number to get the social security benefits that you paid into. The number has ended up being used for all sorts of things because the USA is slightly broken because it is SORT OF a unique ID number for each US citizen, except of course that it wasn’t intended to be that, SSNs are only supposed to be used from first social security contribution (first paycheck) to last social security payout (death) so naturally they can just be recycled.
Thanks, get it now.
So, Elon doesnt know this and thinks that multiple uses of SSN is a proof of a fraud when in reality it is just a sign for a bad system that is not used as intended or not designed as it is needed?He’s complaining that a number isn’t unique and is being poorly used, but the number isn’t supposed to be unique and he’s complaining that it’s not being used in a way that experts are specifically warned not to use it in.
But on a second, stupider layer, this is the system those numbers originate from. So however they use them is how they’re supposed to be used.
But then, back above that first stupid layer, on an even more basic and surface level degree of stupid, the government definitely uses SQL databases. It uses just… so many of them.
This is a good summary. I had to go pull up wikipedia on it since I roughly knew that social security was a national insurance/pension kind of system but am actually hazy on details.
The major issue with it as id (aside from DBA’s gripes about it) is that credit agencies and banks started to rely on it for credit scores and loans. You see, the US has a social scoring system (what we always accuse China of) but the only thing it tracks is how reliable you are about paying off debts. So with your home address, name, and SSN, basically anyone can take out loans or credit cards in your name. This will then damage your credit score, making it harder to get loans, buy a home, rent property, or even get a job.
That’s why Americans are always concerned about having our identity stolen: because you don’t need a lot of info to financially ruin someone’s life.
When you die your social is reused and assigned to someone else eventually. This is what makes it not unique. If something were to screw up in the process the new person could have debt from the prior person for example even though it is not their debt. Another concept common is using the last 4. There are so many conflicts when using just last 4 in a database its bad design.
When you die your social is reused and assigned to someone else eventually.
This is not true, but often repeated. From SSA
https://youtu.be/Erp8IAUouus explains it pretty well
Came here looking for Grey, was not disappointed.
Thank you!
It’s supposed to be unique and might actually be now, but there are def duplicate ssns out there. Craziest identity situation I was told by a project manager of government system that is all about identities. Same First, Same last,same Date of Birth, same SSN; different people.
Weird story, and I have to assume this is data entry error, identity theft, or something else: I couldn’t sign up for a hospital billing platform because my name and full birthdate (including year) conflicted with someone else in the system. I called the hospital billing department and they were very confused about the whole situation. It didn’t really get resolved, and I basically had to let it go to collections so that I could pay because of the shitty system. I don’t have a very common name, and never have had this problem before.
I don’t know all the ways but my identity was stolen and I never knew until my attorney was looking at something else for me in conjunction with the social security commission where I lived, and it popped up under a different name. They then accessed my records using other information, and it was the same number. It took a long time to get it sorted. A few years.
It’s happened twice to me, I’m now 41. I was able to get it resolved both times but it was not easy and in the first case seriously hurt my credit score for seven years.
It’s not fun.
Just curious, but if SSNs were not recycled after death, would there be any reason not to use them as a primary key?
They’re sequential, so the values above and below yours are valid SSNs of people born in the same hospital around the same time.
This would make it trivially easy to get access to records you shouldn’t
Isn’t that assuming you have access to doing arbitrary SQL queries on the database? Then you’d by definition have access to records you shouldn’t.
No. You can have control over specific parameters of an SQL query though. Look up insecure direct object reference vulnerabilities.
Consider a website that uses the following URL to access the customer account page, by retrieving information from the back-end database:
https://insecure-website.com/customer_account?customer_number=132355Here, the customer number is used directly as a record index in queries that are performed on the back-end database. If no other controls are in place, an attacker can simply modify the customer_number value, bypassing access controls to view the records of other customers.
As the user posted, one human can have more than one SSN in their lifetime. Many humans will never have an SSN. Some of those humans may have a TIN. Some humans may have at least one TIN and one SSN at some point.
What are the situations where you can have more than one SSN?
I’m referencing this, but I’m not actually sure: https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/handbook/handbook.14/handbook-1401.html
right I did hear the lifelock guy had to get a new SSN, and also Hilda Schrader Whitcher who’s SSN was 078-05-1120 and needed to be reissued after her SSN was used as a placeholder in wallets. These seemed to be very uncommon though, and not something I’d expect most systems to be able to handle.
(if your id is stolen and you arduously go about getting a new one)
I thought I had lost mine once and got a new SSN card, they don’t give you a new number, it’s the same number
OP is talking about identity theft, not physically losing your card.
As someone who has literally helped the government use SQL for over a decade, this is huge news.
Elon and DOGE should really look into all of those Oracle contracts the Fed pays for. Must be all inefficiency and fraud.
Please do. Most of my sales these days are people dropping Oracle due to cost.
It would be one of the areas that would save the government a bunch of money. But, Ellison is in the Trump camp so it’s not going to happen.
Spinnaker? MongoDB? EnterpriseDB?
At least they aren’t using Access???
Access can do (some) SQL! 😱
I’ve worked for US federal government, access to Access* was the only way I could do some things that wasn’t torture… severe torture.
*keep in mind that SQL is a query language. It can be implemented in different ways and not necessarily within an RDMS.
Maury determined that this was a lie.
See, they want you to believe that SQL stands for Structured Query Language. But I know from our lord and savior Elon that it actually means Socialist Queer Liberals!
There’s a white paper with the social security logo on it https://www.mysql.com/industry/government/
Maybe Musk needs to learn about data normalization and natural keys.
I’m curious what the actual data looks like. I’ve spent quite a bit of time auditing large data systems.
I would expect these databases to be largely denormalized with very wide tables, I would expect them to favour natural keys like a SSNs, and built around per department use cases.
I would not expect them to be highly normalized because then when you need something from another department you need them to ensure consistency.
These systems probably have like 50 years of legacy code or more in them too.
I’m curious what the actual data looks like.
I’m sure it will be available for purchase shortly.
Seemingly every interaction this man has with a normal person is him finding newer and more interesting ways of declaring himself an absolute moron.
How the fuck is he the de facto president of the USA?
A lot of people decided not to vote this time. A lot of other people belived stupid shit their lighted rectangle told them.
Well, the president represents the people…
Also that’s not how deduplication works.
He means/thinks that SSN is not unique (which is not a problem, just different design).
Of course he’s wrong about lots of stuff, just the nerd in me could not not explain it.
I imagine he’s looking at a payments table where there is a non-unique key to relate a citizen to each payment.
Yeah, I was thinking something similar. I’m not a DBA but it’s the easiest way (that I can think of) to record all transactions for a certain user.
I’ve worked on projects for the government as a contractor. There is SQL; SQL as far as the eye can see. I’m sure the NSA has some novel solutions to crunching shittons of big data, but day to day, at least in my experience, it is a lot of relational CRUD and reporting queries.
For the curious, it does clearly exist:
https://docs.aws.amazon.com/govcloud-us/latest/UserGuide/govcloud-rds.html
Felon Musk is such a fucking moron lol
Is retard a bait/dog whistle word?
When Elon was in his early teens, that word was a common pejorative.
If you look at Elon and interpret his behavior as if he was 13, it all makes a lot more sense.
So his emotional growth was literally, uh… well… you know…
Held back by his environment.
Used by the guy who did two Nazi salutes at the inauguration? It absolutely is
What is that a database is not de-duplicated?
That’s weird, I thought I used SQL databases from government agencies regularly. Guess I was mistaken.
If you and Elon disagree about something, just assume he’s wrong about it. If you both agree on something, THEN you might be mistaken.
If it’s tech he doesn’t know shit about it, I learned that years ago during the Twitter acquisition days
He sounds like a CEO who “knows enough to fuck shit up, not enough to know how to fix it, but thinks they do” AKA the worst executive known to IT
And if it isn’t tech he knows even less about it.
Remember when he said he knows more about engineering than anyone else on the planet?
How about the submarine he was going to build to save kids in a cave that obviously would have drowned long before he could have even really started work? But it’s okay, he could just accuse the guy who actually saved their lives of being a pedo
this really needs more circulation because too goddamn many people still believe his PR
That’s phrased brilliantly, and capturey my own perception of Musk
i agree but would like to add that it’s generally good practice to stay away from rockets
Even red ones?
ESPECIALLY red ones.
They go faster.
Yeah. If you ever fly a rocket, you want to fly low and slow to be safe.
I hope the screenshot dude is also going to stop this unquestioning belief in the things people say or claim without evidence.
Those first two paragraphs look like a tendency to prefer hero-worship to critical thought; that seems to be a fairly widespread problem in humans from long before this latest batch of demagogues.
There’s also a hint of “I’m not an ‘expert’ in it so I can’t (be bothered) to understand anything about it” also a very depressingly common attitude.
We all have to rely on somebody to be an expert in fields outside our own. Years ago, if Elon said “Falcon 9 launch yesterday failed due to xyz”, I assumed he had the actual experts giving him notes. The Xhitter debacle showed how much he doesn’t listen to those people.
It’s kind of funny, but we all do this to some extent. I used to think most people on Reddit were super smart. If someone says stuff with authority, then it’s easy to believe what they’re saying and assume they know what they’re talking about.
But then every once in a while, I’d come across a topic that I know deeply about - and the comment would just be blatantly wrong, but still have tons of up votes. It really made me start second guessing all the other comments I had read and thought were smart, but it’s an easy trap to fall into.
I guess what I’m really saying, is that you all are a bunch of morons, probably.
Confirmed, am moron.
You say that with confidence so I’m going to trust you on that 100%.
I just dont get why you have to assume that though?
Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I’ve met and worked with enough humans that I think the best assumtion is that they’re all full of shit until they prove otherwise.
It’s fine to rely on experts for some things, but if those experts aren’t subject to independent scrutiny or directly independent of the claim or sunjecy under test, or can’t give clear testable /replicable evidence, I’d just not put much weight on their testimony as a source of evidence.
I don’t believe you
Cool! I wish there were, and hope there will be, more like you.
Thank you. I was trying to find this earlier today.
Indeed. I’m starting to think I can’t trust what that Musk guy says.
Hey you’re looking for a new truck aren’t ya? Well do we have a deal for you!
This guy Elons
The US government basically ONLY uses SQL…
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Elon’s shock and fury about the database key sounds like he got a report from an out-of-breath 20 year old DOGE kid who thinks they’re hot shit and discovered some massive flaw.
Elon also seems like the kind of person that believes a database schema is all that’s needed to govern a population.
Database schema = “Not fraudulant”, what’s so hard about that? Login credentials don’t even need to be encrypted if you say no fraud before you log in, and cross your fingers. It’s basic programming knowledge, come on man. Also throw some salt over shoulder and slaughter a goat for good measure just in case.
You just describe half of my career. 😅
You joke, but one of the programs at my work we use legit doesn’t need credentials, just a username. That one’s a head scratcher to me.
Would that almost be OK if it were like 40 characters long? Like, you can view any photo on Google Photos if you have the right alphanumeric string
Would still be saved insecurely in password managers and other issues though
Login credentials don’t even need to be encrypted if you say no fraud before you log in, and cross your fingers
Don’t forget to unset the evil bit as well!
Login? Why would I do that? Aren’t the credentials in the code? I just hit the go button.
In plain text I assume right? You’re not crazy…
If they weren’t in plain text how could we check to make sure it’s still there?
He’s mad because it isn’t blockchain
Goddammit, now you’re giving him ideas.
2027 Bingo Card: US adopts BTC as reserve currency, replaces USD, both crash.
BTC? No way, that’s way too sane. It’s going to be DOGE.
Nah it’ll be Trump Coin. Gotta own the grift from the top down
It’s not impossible. There are a lot of crypto grifters who have been prepping to scam the American government.
Pretty sure that was already something they announced that they’d do.
He already wants to replace everything in the US with Blockchain and Crypto scam shit doesn’t he?
Did you want to trust a central authority for your Social Security? It’ll get censored! /s
I remember seeing this after he bought Twitter
Storms I hope that’s true.
I kind of doubt it. It’s been known that he’s a fraud of a coder for a while, that seems like a clear riff.
Enough that I was really disappointed when Some More News talked about Zip2 like he was the sole founder and therefore must have been good at coding at some point.
Btw, the guy he and his brother founded the company with died at 51.
As a megarich techie… With the dirt on Elon’s real capabilities.
Interesting.
IIRC they kicked him out of PayPal because he wanted to run everything on windows instead of the Unix/Linux servers they were running on. And the reason for it was because he couldn’t figure out Linux.
He is a fraud gamer. He is almost definitely a fraud coder.
You know, the thing that always seemed really scary about the OG Nazis is that they were competent, intelligent, put-together people that were just fucking evil. Then you look at the US Nazis and the fucking bozo density is off the charts, but they seem to be succeeding anyway.
Three possibilities come to mind:
- These bozos are going to find out, hard and soon.
- The OG Nazis were actually bozos too.
- Competence and intelligence doesn’t actually matter in running a fascist regime
The OG Nazis were actually bozos too, they just had very good propaganda. So good that you’re still seeing the effects today.
Is it also a case of survivorship bias? Like, I am not super versed in Nazi history, but… There are famous “smart” Nazis like Goebbels and Himmler and Speer - are they only well known because a) they slowly emerged as influential and/or b) it became clear years later that they were the ones behind the wheel?
'Cause I do think that trump and musk are dumb as bricks, but I don’t think Steve Bannon is, and there are probably others like him…
Don’t forget Von Braun…
I’m no expert, but this podcast series seems to suggest Von Braun was mainly very focused on shooting rockets to the moon and fiddling the right guys to get crazy amounts of funding for that goal. I’m not saying he wasn’t a nazi, he was, but exterminating jews etc was probably not his mean focus in life… In the Von Braun case it was propaganda towards his own leaders, to get lots of money. The reason he’s well remembered is not propaganda but because what he tried actually worked out very well and was the basis for pretty much every rocket since. If he’ld happen to live in Soviet Russia, he would probably have become a member of the communist party, whatever would get him more money/free labor for shooting new trials towards space.
Stop carrying water for Nazis, liberal.
Even fucking Forbes thinks it makes you a clown.
Von Braun had a choice where he went to go. He chose the state with segregation and not the one with your “infinite labor supply” that beat America into orbit because he was a fucking Nazi.
Stalin had a nasty habit of putting some of his best designers into gulags. Von Braun probably would have ended up in one of them.
🤔 💭
What got President Musk & his sidekick elected, or rather what made their campaign successful?
Low IQ but high emotional intelligence or like sociopathic intelligence?
They were more competent bozos. They ran Germany the way that your stupid friend gets laid more often because they aren’t smart enough to be embarrassed by themselves and they know only one goal.
Whereas these guys run America like an ugly stupid person that insists that no, actually, they have already in fact convinced you to sleep with them despite what your words say and the goal is to confuse you into bed.
The best decision that nazis ever made was not to indiscriminately purge the military and bureaucracy. Purges certainly did happen but they were focused on the political class and very targeted elsewhere.
They kept the systems people depended on running well to not immediately create massive public backlash… they also got lucky as hell. The military and populace were deeply bitter after WW1 and they leveraged grand gestures to great effect while changing relatively little administratively. The fucks in the US are making flaccid grand gestures while tearing down systems people actually depend on.
the OG Nazis were dumb as bricks lmao. Weird nerds with massive egos half of which believed in magic.
Hitler and Himmler believed in “World Ice Theory” which was put forth by some German crackpot who stated the base matter of all reality was ice.
Every German person I’ve ever met talks so confidently about shit that you just kinda assume they know what they’re talking about, until they start talking about a domain you’re an expert in and you realize they’re actually kinda dumb but with good vocabulary.
Oh, Redditors. That explains ich_iels popularity per capita.
The nazis weren’t as competent and intelligent as you suggest, that work was outsourced to IBM - Yes, that IBM.
You know that Watson product that IBM sells and advertises so often? R one that plays chess and was on jeopardy (Fun!) Turns out that Watson was the name of the dude that signed off on them accelerating the Holocaust for the nazis. Some believe the nazis couldn’t have been nearly as efficient at unrepentant large scale murder without IBM joining the fray, yet they skate on by…
The very first hacker purposely damaged the contact that read the value that stored if a citizen was Jewish on the punch cards of census data in occupied France (if I’m remembering correctly) it’s not known how many he saved but he did pay the ultimate price and died in the concentration camps for his sabotage efforts
Edit: my memory was close. René Carmille specifically delayed the June 1941 report on the numbers of Jewish citizens and foreigners so that it still wasn’t complete by the time of his ultimate arrest in 1944, and utilized his position to create extremely real fake identities for escaping refugees amongst other resistance actions
It’s absolutely the second one. They basically all had brain damage from ww1 (who knew explosions are bad for you) and several of them including Hitler were drugged the fuck up. Julius Streicher was a clown, but not like a funny or sad clown, more like pathetic, like honestly comparable to someone from 8chan. Goebbels was a creepy loser. Hitler was a meth addict with ibs and anger issues who spent his last days just destroying the air quality of the bunker he would die in and kept invading countries despite already being at war. Heidrich died by personally chasing after antifascists who happened to have a grenade. And that’s not touching on their archeological or spiritual beliefs which are on par with qanon for believability and sensibility
Yep, the actual competence was basically in the army (inherited from a long military tradition), so it’s important that those generals don’t cave.
Heidrich died by personally chasing after antifascists who happened to have a grenade.
That’s a fucked up way to describe the assassination.
OG Nazis were looking for aryans in Tibet.
Hopefully all 3 but as the other poster said, Nazis really were clowns.
Sure, Hitler had some early successes militarily - combined arms blitzkrieg was a new deal and effective - but it’s not like that won the war. Besides which there is just so much dumbass occult bullshit going on in the background with the Nazis like you would not believe.
You don’t need to be smart or super competent to get a bunch of people killed. You just need enough people willing to pull the triggers and for the rest of the people to go along. Going along is easy until it ends with shit like the Holocaust.
Going along is easy until it ends with shit like the Holocaust.
Have you seen the reactions every time someone suggests it’d be nice if Israel stopped shooting people and taking their land? We’re pro-genocide now.
to be fair, the israeli palestine conflict is significantly longer running than anything that the germans managed, and so far, hasn’t killed 6 million people, so there’s that.
Part of the problem is that it’s really really difficult to see the magnitude of the issue until the dust has settled, part of the reason we know how many people died in the holocaust is due to the work of various jewish archivists/historians that have spent decades crawling through information trying to piece together what they can, paired with the reasonably meticulous documentation that the germans were known for. (though i can’t confirm that one)
Up until we practically landed boots IN germany, we didn’t really have any idea what was going on, that’s part of why it took so long for anything to be done.
Thankfully it’s 2024 and we have modern technology, so you can’t exactly just “hide” things like genocide anymore, it’s a lot more apparent.
It’s not 2024, and the inability to hide things has apparently just made it more blatant when we decide to ignore genocide.
lmao yeah it is 2025 now, still stuck in last years shit i guess lol.
Anyway.
and the inability to hide things has apparently just made it more blatant when we decide to ignore genocide.
yeah, you would think with how easy it would be to expose and report genocide, that if genocide were happening everybody would immediately know about it and be worried about, and move to do things to prevent it.
Up until we practically landed boots IN germany, we didn’t really have any idea what was going on, that’s part of why it took so long for anything to be done
There were people who specifically got themselves arrested to observe conditions within the concentration camps and then escape because some reports of conditions were too unbelievable
There were people who specifically got themselves arrested to observe conditions within the concentration camps and then escape because some reports of conditions were too unbelievable
literally makes my point for me lol
Just look at the military decisions Hitler made, that was luckily an incompetent guy thinking he’s smarter than everyone else. That rings a bell, doesn’t it?
In the long run, making less stupid decisions wouldn’t most likely have changed the outcome, but even more people would likely have died (and unfortunately the people executing the murder of the Jews weren’t as incompetent as their glorious leader).
A lot of behaviour in politics is emotionally driven, and sustained by the lazyness of voters not learning how the system they live in works.
If anything, I think this requires more emotional intelligence and perhaps acting skills.
OG Nazis were master manipulators, dressed cool as fuck and their propaganda machine was one of the best ever. Intelligent? There is no hard evidence of that, and their military strategies were poorly thought. They had fucking cool weapons and equipment, so maybe good engineers were involved, but that’s it.
Our Nazis have way less style
I think some of the more intelligent US Nazis are letting the bozos do their thing and riding the coat-tails and avoiding direct blame if things turn. I’m looking at a good chunk of the House and Senate.
OG Nazis were bozos. They advanced people based on the shape of their face. How exactly do you think that would turn out in the long run?
Here’s Lazerpig dissecting the myth of Michael Wittmann for example.
You know, the thing that always seemed really scary about the OG Nazis is that they were competent, intelligent, put-together people that were just fucking evil. Then you look at the US Nazis and the fucking bozo density is off the charts, but they seem to be succeeding anyway.
Not every fascist and Nazi needed to be competent, intelligent, and put-together. Just enough of them. I suppose we’ll find out in real-time if they have amassed sufficient numbers this go 'round.
The OG Nazis were actually bozos too.
All 3 of those. Yes.
