I really liked Andor, but that’s because it was trying to be a political spy thriller first, and a star wars show second.
Most Disney Star Wars is really in love with the fact that its Star Wars, to the point that it feels like a child smashing their toys together, than an actual show or movie
Disney Star Wars is really in love with the fact that its Star Wars, to the point that it feels like a child smashing their toys together
Mood.
In a similar vein, I’ve been calling anything post-buyout as “Disney fanfiction”. Some fanfiction is great! But it’s not canon.
Trek, baby.
ay, they hate each other too. XD same shit, different galaxy. XD
but if you can enjoy it, then definitely do so! i’m excited for Academy! and SNW is always rockin.
Sounds like something a borg would say. Bitch. 👍
no idea what you’re saying.
I can’t believe I am saying this, but I am starting to enjoy Star Trek way more than SW (and I really was a fan of SW in my childhood).
Not hating on Star Trek, because I love both franchises.
What’s a Star Wars?
All facetiousness aside, I liked the movies, but they’re not my personality.
Same with Sherlock, Star Trek, Lord Of The Rings, Critical Role, Apple products, Wie Is De Mol, etc.
I like them, may even love them, but my whole world does not revolve around them.sorry, i’m too busy enjoying The High Republic. but farewell to you!
Me thirty years ago. In 1977 my entire life revolved around Star Wars. Still haven’t seen the last movie
Same. 8 was such a ridiculous clusterfuck of a film that I lost all interest in seeing 9.
I like everything Star Wars. Except the kid’s shows, of course. Didn’t even watch those. But everything else I’ve seen, almost.
Honestly? The kids cartoons are kind of a beacon of good storytelling in Star Wars, nowadays.
Obviously they’re for children, and some arcs are boring filler, so YMMV, but they’re also able to tell these smaller, off the beaten path, stories that you don’t get elsewhere.
I said this in another comment that Star War’s big problem has been that It’s very in love with itself. It’s a self-referential fever dream that feels more like a child smashing their toys together, than a real show.
So ironically, the shows for children don’t have that problem quite so much. For instance, there’s an episode of The Bad Batch where a bunch of miners rise up and kill their boss. That shit rules! That’s a fun story that happens to take place in the Star Wars universe, and isn’t concerned with the fact that it’s Star Wars
When I say kid’s shows, I’m not really talking about The Bad Batch. That show cut deep into me as an adult with my own children. That show is not for kids.
No, I mean more stuff like these template cookie cutter Disney shows, like Star Wars: Young Jedi Adventures. Those are utterly not interesting at all, and I don’t consider them canon for my own sanity of not feeling like I need to watch them. 😄
My kids watched some episodes of that show while I was listening in from the side, and it could’ve just as easily been an episode of literally any other kid’s show, like Paw Patrol or something, but with a Star Wars theme to it. Same basic messages as any American kid’s show. And a bit overly tailored towards an American audience as well, specifically. Not really looking to subject my children to that. 🙅♂️
[The new crap] Helps to reveal it never really was “good”.
Helps to revisit the old stuff to start seeing the flaws…
The comedian Stewart Lee (not to be confused for the Steward Lee involved with Star Wars), had some astute observations in some interview, pointing out the confusion in it, like around princess Leia… She’s a princess, but helping the rebels, but also racist against the wookie… XD
It’s very freeing to realise how much it does not make sense, riddled with inconsistencies, a hodgepodge of ideas copied from far superior sci-fi, cinema, and literature.
I feel like it was a cheesy space opera, until it tried to pivot to the Marvel style action comedy dressed up as hero epic.
Cheesy, theatrical one-liners (“You failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me.”) are replaced by quips that try to be humorous (“Every word of what you just said was wrong”) instead. The textbook dramatic arc of conflict, catastrophe and resolution is replaced by a comicbook escalation of ever greater threats. The final conflict of Ep VI was spiritual in nature, where Ep IX saw the Evil Wizard Reborn reach into his magic hat and pull out a fleet so massive that the only way to destroy it is a supercharged reprise of “dying lightning blast”.
Whether they’re good isn’t relevant here. Both are cliché executions of their respective genres, but cliché doesn’t have to be bad, nor does it strictly need to be good to be entertaining. My point is that they’re different genres to begin with, and it’s that genre shift that prompts fans of one genre to find the things they dislike about the other.
I think I could have enjoyed the Sequels as an “entertaining enough in the theatre” series, if they weren’t such a jarring departure from the setting and associated expectations they were tacked onto.
Huh… It never occurred to me (because I was a dumb kid) that Leia has to be a princess of a domain.
I guess she was supposed to be the daughter of one of the Galactic Empire’s vassals like the Atriedes to the Padishah Emperor and the Corrinos in Dune. Then she would be helping a rebellion to overthrow her lord’s rule over her and her fellow vassals, hence the alliance in Rebel Alliance, which is also like the Landsrad in Dune.
Dune did leave a big influence on sci-fi. Even the Force is like the whole prescience (eg. Deflecting lasers using foresight) and shared ancestral memory thing (eg. Connections to everyone and communing with the dead, which always seemed so random to me at the end of New Hope). Luke and Leia definitely embodies a lot of qualities of Paul.
Also, she’s racist against Wookies? Lol when was that shown? 😆.
racist against Wookies? Lol when was that shown?
Like when she says something like “Would somebody get this big walking carpet out of my way?” and general demeanor in interactions and absence of interactions.
Huh. I’ll have to rewatch them someday.
Also I always thought it really random that the prequels started with a blockade and trade dispute with the Trade Federation, but now that I’m an old man I see that it’s likely yet another ripoff of Dune.
It’s exactly like the Spacing Guild! They are the merchant transportation industry in that universe and they can and do isolate the Atreides on the planet to secretly facilitate an invasion.
Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, DC; it’s all creatively exhausted corporate entertainment product at this point.
The next time they reboot superbatspiderman is gonna be better for sure. who doesnt want to see another origin story of fucking spiderman
That’s sounding like Spider-Man: Brand New Day. It technically is just yet another reboot, but a “soft reboot”. Reboot is a reboot nonetheless.
Red Letter Media’s final thoughts on the state of Star Wars were pretty insightful: It’s become a container with a very specific aesthetic that Disney can pile an infinite number of things into: multi-quadrant science fiction blockbusters, preschool cartoons, carnival rides, political dramas, kids adventures, whatever.
It’s since stopped being a finite thing anyone can love anymore. When something becomes everything, it loses distinctness. That distinctness, whatever it was, is what early fans originally fell in love with.
Of course, those original objects still exist, but you have to specify them. You’re an “original trilogy” fan or an Andor fan or the made-for-TV Ewok movies fan†, but saying you’re a Star Wars fan is basically meaningless now. And for people who proudly wore that mantle, through eyerolls and ridicule, that’s a genuine loss.
† Teek from Battle for Endor has a posse.
Disney Star Wars: MCU.
They’re giving Jaxon a movie?
Who?
Only if they get James Gunn to do it, and only if they can find something eye-shaped to graphically pierce.
“Want to sell a lot? Just brand it Star Wars!”
The motivation for making a new show should be “We want to tell an amazing new story set within the Star Wars universe” but it’s actually “We want to make loads of money, therefore our new thing is going to be Star Wars.”
but saying you’re a Star Wars fan is basically meaningless now. And for people who proudly wore that mantle, through eyerolls and ridicule, that’s a genuine loss.
I remember explaining something similar to my partner (not about Star Wars) and about how this isn’t about “gatekeeping” (though it can become gatekeeping) but rather about this loss. I can’t remember exactly what it was about now, but it was some aspect of nerd culture that didn’t exactly become mainstream, but rather morphed to become mainstream.
Star Wars isn’t good, Andor and Mandalorian S01 are good.
That Christmas special is pretty tight if you live somewhere with legal weed.
I know what I’m looking for this holiday week!
Add Rogue One, as well
I rewatched it (several times, actually…) recently after Andor S2 and was just a little underwhelmed after years of remembering it through rose-tinted lenses. That’s not to say it’s a bad movie. Just kinda mid or slightly above average, which puts it far ahead of the rest of the Disney-era Star Wars movies. But next to the quality of Andor there are definitely some things that stick out.
Some critiques I have are pacing, unearned character flip-flopping when convenient, and supporting characters whose own motivations don’t go far beyond supporting the main characters.
It still has a special place in my heart and this isn’t to say other SW media is without flaw. I think Rogue One is a fun movie but its greatness lies in how it sets up the Andor series rather than anything it does by itself.
I definitely think the best way to appreciate it is immediately following the Andor series, which itself is best after a Rogue One watch, at least the first time around. I.e. Rogue One -> Andor -> Rogue One
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Mandalorian was hammy. I think people reeeeally want to pretend there’s something left in that wrung out dish rag of a franchise when there really isn’t.
the only redeemable quality the mandalorian has is the werner herzog cameo
And both of those definitely got the “popular series that drags on way too long” treatment.
Mando? Yes. Andor? No.
Andor was only two seasons though??
Andor S02 was great tho?
It was, Andor is great. However, The Mandalorian is at least one season too long, the third season isn’t even about The Mandalorian anymore, he was just a side character for a large part of it.
Mandalorian is definitely my guilty pleasure. I just like the setting so much. Book of Boba however fucked up hard, besides the Tusken Raiders arc, I keep looking if there is a fan edit of just the Tusken Raider scenes and haven’t found anything yet. It is really annoyiny how they had to interweave it with the Mandalorian.
Well, “dragging on way too long” is the main difference between a movie and a TV-show.
I guess everyone has their own cutoff point. I like works that are longer than movies but don’t go on for a bajillion seasons, especially if they actually seem like they want to tell a story. For me, it doesn’t even matter if the series is consistently good, I just don’t want to watch that much content for one show. Plus the longer it goes on without reaching a conclusion, the more likely it is that it’s just going to get canceled.
I suppose Andor doesn’t really deserve to get lumped in with the likes of Mandalorian here, considering that it managed to finish its story in two seasons.
honestly, Disney’s treatment of the franchise killed my life long love for it
Lucas had already taken it out to the woodshed several times.
The franchise has historically been at its best in the fallow years, when people were just tapping into the IP to tell their own stories.
But you can say the same of Trek, of Harry Potter, of Marvel and DCU. Any time the suits take over, content trends towards slop
Agreed… however, I do have a specially dark and bitter place in my heart for Disney. They have a rotten touch and ruin every IP they buy
I mean, I generally like their original work. Moana, Lilo and Stitch, The Incredibles, Zootopia - all very entertaining, creative, and packed with talented performances.
And they can even make solid kids action movies. Disenchanted, Hocus Pocus, the original Pirates of the Caribbean, Tron - it’s clearly within the capacity of the studio to make good films.
When they buy up these outside franchises and “Disney-fy” them, though… Woof.
I thought Incredibles predated the Disney takeover? Otherwise I agree
disenchanted was disney? i thought that was primarily a groening project.
there’s also a movie with the same name, not to be confused with the Groening/Netflix show.
Disenchanted, the movie. Not the Netflix cartoon. The feature length movie is a sequel to Enchanted, a live-action parody of the traditional Disney Princess trope.
LucasArts did some of the best Star Wars games. I loved Jedi Outcast, best jedi experience out there, and X-Wing Alliance thanks to the amount of ships the game gave you
I have watched every single Star Wars movie in theatres since I was a kid and they released the special editions in theatres. But last Jedi was so bad that I didn’t even bother to go see rise of skywalker. Not just in theatres, i still haven’t watched it to this day.
so you haven’t watched every single star wars movie in theatres since you were a kid
You’re not missing out, in my opinion it was not a good movie in any sense.
I thought the first movie of the new trilogy was actually pretty good though.
There are valid criticisms of it but it was all around a solid start to the next chapter of the franchise.
Then the last Jedi happened. Fuck that. And then whatever the rise of skywalker is. Oh emperor palpatine is alive again for no reason at all, woo.
If they’d have just kept the expanded universe canon and moved forward with that then everything would have been fine. But no. Let’s have an aggressive needlessly secretive admiral lady ram a starship, because “believe women” somehow also means “women are incapable of lying” or whatever the fuck the point of that idiocy was.
It’s just so fucking bad.
I used to do a little camera work. #7 has my favorite shot/camera angle of the entire franchise. they told a lot of that story visually.
That’s a new take I can appreciate. Thanks actually
Well, someone had to since the script writers didn’t.
People disagree on this often. I thought 7-8-9 was shit. However 8 was a special kind of shit. I think half of the movie was really good. The other half of it, was absolute dogshit. At least it wasn’t a “'memba” fest like 7 and 9. It tried to do original stuff, but it fucked up royally on the pursuit / canto arcs. And I’m not even talking about the hyperspace ramming.
However the Luke + Rey + Kylo arcs were genius. People hate it for the old man drinking aliencowtitjuice and being a bitter old man and for his sacrifice, but it’s actually very characteristic of him. And the mystery of Rey’s past and her connection with Kylo is very well done and explores things never seen before.
I wonder what the story behind this is. And whether Johnson had to make concessions for Disney.
If that is what is characteristic of Luke Skywalker, then they certainly changed the character and the fan page is it is appropriate.
Throwing out the Literary Extended Universe, but kinda of sort of keeping elements of it is what has made it so bad.
There were really important things that happened in the world in the LEU. Which continues establishing who the characters and the world of Star wars.
It’s should be no surprise the fan base is so divided. If you have only seen that Han Shot First that gives you a very different perspective on Han Solo. If you have read about Mara Jade, or C’Boath, Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Katana Fleet then having their names spoken in the cinematic universe gives you a very different vision of what’s going on on screen because you have a or existing understanding that you can’t just forget about us they don’t actually explain who those people are in the on screen version of them.
Lucas never should have licenced stories that were not going to be okay if the cannon, then go ahead and steal the names of those non canon characters or events if he didn’t want to fracture the fanbase. But they did and now it’s a mess.
That being said there is now opportunity to do Star wars legends movies since they already disassociated those stories from canonical Star wars, which is great and they should absolutely do that.
how will you learn how palpatine came back for reasons now?
Same here
I’ve actually come to dread when they add a sequel to a good movie.
For every Terminator two there’s a Phantom menace.
I enjoyed the P.M., cool world building and lore going on. The new shit however has nothing new or cool.
For all their flaws at least the pt expanded the universe in a coherent and believable way.
For every Terminator 2 there are thousands of Phantom Menaces. It was one of very few good sequels to ever exist.
I don’t think anyone hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
