it’s like you believe you can tariff them expecting they won’t do the same. Why do you believe the rest of the world is not going to retaliate and why do you believe America can prosper without the rest of the world?
What’s the point of having a military alliance with countries you puts tariffs on? That’s unfriendly to say the least.
You probably won’t get too many of those to answer your question on Lemmy.
Project 2025. The goal is to remove all tariffs and other limitations against the US.
Canada for instance has laws on antibiotics for dairy, foreign ownership for banks and telcos, various things like that. India has tariffs on everything.
The document outlines crazy things like capital punishment and a border wall, its clearly Trumps handbook. It’s all in there.
fascism must always create more outsiders, must always create more enemies to keep control, to keep things directed.
remember, fascism appropriates genuine upset and the fact that to the privileged, equality feels like persecution. it steers itself by creating enemies to hate. remember: people’s lives are genuinely fucking miserable. there is dystopian shit happening. and all of that is really complicated, and if people stopped to think about it for five minutes, they would pull a 1789.
so they just keep adding more enemies, and more derangements like what the qanons call ‘baking’ but hitler just said was the way everyone should read books, until they live in a totally unhinged fantasy world, and any method of social control must engage with the fantasy.
tl;dr: sacrificing external allies to fuel a persecution complex, keep control, entrench the madness, keep attention off the american elites that were at least rhetorically some of the initial targets.
Classic fascist strategy.
This country is circling the toilet FAST.
maybe we should, like, do something about that?
You guys do know that facism tends to be left leaning right?
Extreme right wing nazis fought extreme left wing communists in WW2.
No. It doesn’t.
Hitler was left leaning. What side was trying to censor opponents and throw political opponents in jail? It was the left and it backfired.
Hitler was not left leaning. He was supported by the old guard and the industrialists like Krupp until he out grew them and then turned on them. At the end of the day he was an autocrat, a totalitarian. Think was Gaddafi liberal? How about Suddam? They both had extensive social programs, but they were not left leaning. In the Weimar Republic it was the right wing courts that tried to censor and throw people in jail, and often let the right wing activists off the hook for similar offenses. Left and right wing groups can both censor and throw people in jail, ie USSR, but generally this is in service of totalitarianism, the ideology at that point is just a husk to keep people in line while people vye for control.
He’s not worth more than 3 words from me. Thank you for standing up for truth. I know it’s a loosing battle on the internet.
Well according to Hitler that his party was neither left nor right wing. He claimed it as a “syncretric movement”. It was essentially his own little sick movement.
And why do you take the word of a man who was infamously one of history’s greatest liars?
Consolidation of power to a tiny coalition of privileged cronies with conditional impunity as long as they backed the leader. That’s not “conservative” or “liberal” or “right” or “left.” It’s just…autocratic. Have you read The Dictator’s Handbook by Bueno de Mesquita and Smith? It’s a very illuminating reference and eschews the entire argument of “left vs right” in favor of a ruling-coalition size relative to the ruled population model and it appears to be quite accurate in predicting and explaining the behavior of politicians and rulers, Hitler included.
Radical centrism strikes again!
Who does that remind you of sir? Kind of reminds me of the today’s left with throwing political opponents in jail and letting the supporters of the left off the hook.
Exactly one political party in US history ran a candidate from a prison cell, do you know who it was and what the party was called?
Hitler put all the leftists in camps and also purged the left wing of his own party, he came to power by being appointed by center-right big business interests specifically as a way to crush the left and destroy labor unions, and those interests did quite well under his rule, the term “privatization” was literally first coined to describe the Nazi economy.
So those are the points showing the Nazis were right wing. The points showing the Nazis were left wing are… they censored speech (which the right also does, all the time) and they have socialist in their name (curious on whether you consider the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea a democracy).
New troll account, ban speedrun.
what does ‘left’ mean to you, dear nazi?
Stock market manipulation. Look at who moved in to make big trades after the market plunged. Follow the money.
“What’s the point?” The point is to seize power and get rich.
They will destroy whatever they want or need in order to become rich and powerful.
I haven’t seen any republicans here so I’ll also offer my opinion as a sane person ….
- Narcissism. There is only me, and other. There are no allies, just suckers. it’s all about me. Right here. Right now.
- Bullying. Trump styles himself as a great negotiator but from the outside it looks a lot more like bullying. And if you believe his commitments, you’re a sucker. He thinks this is “making deals” but is the only way he knows how to operate
You won’t get logical answers to this because there isn’t one. Maybe they’re just that dumb. Maybe they just want to tank the economy a bit so the rich and gobble up more during the dip. Maybe they just actually love Russia. Maybe they’re being secretly black mailed by Russia.
You’re never going to get a satisfying answer to this question, because there is no actual reason. If you want, you can go peek in on the conservative subreddits and watch their gold-medal winning mental gymnastics, but the reason Trump is doing this is Putin told him to. The U.S. is destroying themselves for no gain.
It’s like that scene in the Incredibles where Mr. Incredible gets inside the robot, and has it tear itself to pieces. Except an entire country. And ~88,000,000 people voted against self-destruction and are being dragged off a cliff.
for no gain.
Nearly $3 billion USD flowed through the TRUMP cryptocoin rugpull, whoever owned initial coins made very, very large gains.
The $3 billion in quid buys a lot of anti-Ukraine pro quo
But, thanks to the Supreme Court, Trump could go on national TV and say he change US policy on Ukraine because he was bribed and he’d still be immune to any legal consequences (other than impeachment, but never anything criminal).
Nearly $3 billion USD flowed through the TRUMP cryptocoin
But wait, there’s more. Us taxpayer money will now be used to “invest” in these crypto scams.
There’s a lot of traitors in this country, but the conservatives on the Supreme Court may be at the top of the list.
Because they think it owns the libs, plain and simple!
The reality is that these people were/are unhappy in their lives due to stagnation in their finances/jobs, poor healthcare, and they don’t have a tight local community. Then these dumb, angry people are primed to accept someone who says they’ll fix their lives, and knows how to talk right to them. Everything else is just toppings, but that’s really the meat of it.
I’m not a conservative but there’s a logic to it beyond this, “because Putin!” circlejerk nonsense. Tariffs are a reaction against Neoliberalism and the economic intelligencia that has fucked everyone over. Many of them blame NAFTA and the offshoring of union jobs to other countries with cheaper labor and fewer protections, and they think they can bring them back through tariffs.
Many of these people understand well that they have been fucked, but can’t really name capitalism directly because it’s a sacred cow. Still they’re going to react poorly to “the establishment” telling them they’re dumb and wrong, and that includes libs screaming at them that they’re “serving Putin” without even understanding what they’re actually trying to do.
Tariffs aren’t going to bring those jobs back, at least not without significant subsidies that the government will never do. Also, for the record, those jobs have raised the living conditions of the people they went to, and are one of the reasons China was able to lift 800 million people out of extreme poverty in the past 40 years, but the pitch of, “You might not be able to find a decent job, but hey, at least a poor Chinese rice farmer can afford a washing machine now,” doesn’t exactly go over well with the right. We should be focusing on the super-rich who have enough hoarded wealth to make everyone rich, regardless of national borders and whatnot, but they see that as communism, because it is communism.
Ultimately, tariffs are a way of rebelling against an economic orthodoxy that isn’t working for a growing number of people and they fit into the nationalist narratives about why things are so bad (because of foreigners) without having to name capitalism itself as the problem.
This follows a long historical trend in America where people don’t want the government to do anything ever but also need the government to do things to address crises and allow society to function so we have to come up with convoluted approaches that “don’t count” as government interference, for whatever reason. For example, the New Deal was too restrained to actually end the Depression, but once WWII happened we could take the gloves off with government spending (on the military) which was economically necessary, and since then, military bases have served as an inefficient and corrupt way for the government to infuse cash into local communities by paying people to just walk around with guns in like Nebraska. This goes all the way back to people like Jefferson, who absolutely hated the idea of big government but also casually doubled the size of the country with the Louisiana Purchase. There’s also the classic psychology of, “Keep your damn, government hands off my social security!” A big reason American politics are insane is because there is a battle in everyone’s mind between ideology and material interests, and the way in which material interests are persued is roundabout, convoluted, and ineffective, because everyone’s trying to avoid being/sounding like a communist.
When I meet magas one of the questions I like to ask is something along the lines of describe your ideal healthcare system. 90% basically describe Medicare for all. I clarify, get more detail (basically make them really think about it as much as possible), and then ask which candidates or party they believe is in line with them. Obvs I want to avoid backing them in a corner so don’t say ‘Aha you’re a socialist!’. Rather, I work though it with them, google candidates and see what their policy is. Bonus points when half the R websites don’t even have policy so they can see that. Anyway we generally get to the point that they think they might be left of both parties on that issue. And then I try to plant a seed that this is a totally normal process for figuring out who to support and get out of there while they feel some mutual respect between us. It’s harder these days when the fascism is so blatant but I don’t know what else to do when I find myself living in a democracy with a bunch of insane people
They don’t care about cooperation, everything is a deal to them. If some other country has something, we don’t. The entire worldview of Republicans is just capitalism, if something can’t be framed in terms of profit it’s not worth pursuing.
They’re fucking Ferengis
Edit: as others have correctly pointed out, at least Ferengis have standards. This might be a disservice to them.
Ferengis were meant to be a caricature of our current society, so yes, Ferengi fits.
Don’t insult Ferengis. They’re actually smart.
And comply with contracts
They’ve been whitewashed over time as ST gets farther from the left. The OG ferengi would only have complied with a contract if they thought they’d get caught breaking it, which is honestly a more accurate satire.
Rule of Acquisition #17: A contract is a contract is a contract… but only between Ferengi.
Sounds like you’ve got the lobes for business.
The answer is: they do not give a shit.
They do not care about the US as a country.
They do not care about the Americans as a people.
They do not care about the economy.
They do not care about anything apart from their own personal interest. Lining their own pockets is all they care about. If someone helps them do that, they are friends with them. If they don’t, they do not matter.
Congratulations, you now officially live in a cleptocracy where they shake you down, take all of your money and give it to the guys who already have billions. All the taxes they claim to save by obliterating social security, affordable care etc? They are not going back to you, they will stuff them in Musk’s pockets through bullshit contracts and other schemes.
And at the same time, they are critically crippling the IRS to make sure the billionairs no longer even have to pretend to pay taxes.
You’re describing the Republican politicians. The Republican voters are a different bag entirely.
Out of the ones I have discussed politics with, their underlying motivations for supporting Trump are emotionally driven but explained through rhetoric aligning with their emotional motivations. It tends to be grouped into one of a few different feelings:
- cost of living/financial security — immigrants’ fault, taxes, foreign nations taking advantage of US generosity
- fear of change/bigotry — immigrants, “DEI”, “wokeness”, border security
- American exceptionalism/egotism — immigrants, 1st ammendment
- distrust of federal government — “DEI”, government corruption, regulatory overreach, socialism = communism
- distrust of industry — vaccines harmful, science bad
Aside from the bigotry and exceptionalism, those emotions aren’t necessarily wrong. Cost of living increases, politicians owned by lobbyists, and profit-driven privatization of essential services are actual problems. The issue with conservatives is that they have scapegoats to blame those problems on instead of acknowledging the underlying causes. All it takes is some loudmouth, ignorant jackass offering an overly-simplified, emotionally-compelling solution to a complex problem, and others will latch on to it, oversimplify and exaggerate it even more, and disseminate it until the rest of them start believing it.
People can be hateful, narcissistic pieces of shit, and it goes without saying that this repugnant rhetoric is spread intentionally. But, it’s also a direct consequence of a public education system failing among a landscape of patriotic propaganda and media controlled by a powerful few who put profit and self-gain above the health of society.
When someone grows up being told America is a flawless nation, that self-reliance is the foundational trait of success, is never educated to think critically of the government and media, and is bombarded by a neverending stream of false information that validates their fears and lulls them into feeling smarter than everyone else, they end up being indoctrinated into the right-wing cult we have today.
They won’t blame foundational American principles (like the economic ideology) for American problems—they were made to believe America is perfect. It must be something external (like immigrants) making their life worse.
They won’t question those they believe have authority over them—the teacher is always right. If Trump says it’s the Democrats fault, it’s the Democrats fault.
They won’t make an effort to understand other views—self-reliance is antithetical to empathy, and they had it ingrained which one was more important. The only person they can trust is themselves and by extension those who agree.
They also won’t need to understand other views. With the breadth of echo chambers available at the tip of their fingers, it’s easy to seek and reinforce conservative views, social connection, and validation. Chuck McFuck has a sole trans daughter who begrudgingly interacts with him, in contrast to his 10,000 friendly and cooperative buddies on r/conservative.
Going to steel man this since theres obviously no one on here answering this question seriously. Not a republican and don’t agree with all this, just imagining what my republican dad would say about this:
For ukraine and Europe, we have no interest in protecting them besides sentimental attachments. Ukraine is not our problem, it’s Europe’s and if they want to dump money into a lost cause by all means go ahead, but leave the u.s. out of it unless your going to compensate us for it. The u.s. isn’t threatened by Russia, we have an ocean, the world’s largest navy and nukes to protect us. The larger threat is China and we should be focusing on them, not russia which can barely invade it’s neighbor, much less march across Europe and the atlantic. Europe can handle its own problems.
For Canada and Mexico and tarriffs in general. We need to bring manufacturing back to America and revitalize the rust belt. We can’t do that if companies find it more profitable to go over seas and pay people pennies when they’d have to pay Americans much more. The only way to get them to come back is to make it too expensive to import things.
This is all about putting America first. For decades America has been spending billions to protect Europe and has been sending billions of dollars over seas to build factories owhile factory after factory closes here in the u.s. We need to stop all of that and spend our money in America for Americans.
Feel free to use this comment as a punching bag, I don’t care, just trying to give OP an actual answer if this was a legitimate question and not some rhetorical question seeking affirmation on how dumb the Republicans are. They are, don’t get me wrong, but just say so and don’t dress it up in questions like this.
This is a good steel man response, very much like Facebook posts I have seen lately. It’s really sad how much the right has abandoned listening to experts and just assuming we can apply “common sense” answers to fix problems that are complicated.
The thing is, it’s not total rubbish. The problems are real - rust belt decline, life is harder for Americans than it was in the past. America is more protected from Russian aggression than Europe. He doesn’t seem to realise or care that the reason for that is because we trusted that the US would have our back and its not like the us wasn’t getting anything in return.
It’s just that these truths are mixed in with lies - immigrants are the problem, tariffs will fix anything, that if america abandons it’s allies and its promises (over protecting Ukraine after they gave up their nukes), this will lead to a better long term outcome for America.
Trump is too dumb to understand subtlety and he’s being played by multiple bad actors, domestic and foreign.
its not like the us wasn’t getting anything in return
Thing is, what the USA was buying with its expensive umbrella over Europe was a disarmed Europe. At the time, the USA felt it was in their interest for EU to be weak.
For a variety of reasons, the rise of China perhaps being at the forefront, the USA no longer believes its in their interest to keep EU toothless.
I guess they’re right about that. They’re feeling tough now but I doubt the US will like to lose the perks of being our daddy. If this shit continues I’d stop sharing Intel, remove US bases from Europe, make new treaties (including nuclear) covering Europe’s allies and trading partners and give the US the freeze until a sane administration is in power and they can keep their house in order. This is actually a positive since the west has been complacent. No more involvement in shitty US conflicts has to be a bonus. You know, in Europe we haven’t been at war for almost the whole of our history like the US. We grew out of that long ago and only followed our ally the US into their asshole conflicts. They did enough good in the world that the evil was kinda balanced at least. Yeah, that’s over.
Dad? Is that you?!
We need to bring manufacturing back to America and revitalize the rust belt. We can’t do that if companies find it more profitable to go over seas and pay people pennies when they’d have to pay Americans much more.
Canada has
- Higher wages
- More safety regs
One of those must be the issue. ;-)
When we spend money in other countries, we are spending it on Americans. When free people thrive, America wins. When people around the world have stable governments that at least try to look out for their own people, America wins. Even if 49% of it is wasted to fraud and abuse, we’re still coming out ahead: the only Americans who have lived through a draft are in their 60s, and a nuclear attack in their 80s.
This hedgemony has staved of world war three and nuclear war for 75 years, and kept the world a relatively stable and safe place for virtually everyone.
Even if you completely disagree with me, and feel like voting for conservatives is the better alternative, two facts completely undermine that decision. First, the times America has failed to live up to its ideals or faltered in its highest pursuits have been exclusively presided over by conservatives. Second, the number of times conservatives have cut spending and passed the savings on to the 99% is exactly zero, but their track record of increasing spending while only significantly cutting taxes for the 1%…is 100%. And, as a bonus fact, this the wealthiest nation ever to exist in the history of the world. The diea that we can’t afford to help Americans and keep up our global spending is meritless, for example, we could eat like three billionaires and end global hunger, provide healthcare and education to every American.
Even before the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it had occurred to me that the US disproportionately spends much, much more on military might than our allies do. Europe pulled a good one on us, ensuring they could lead more carefree lifestyles with first world social safety nets while we take on that heavy burden of being the sentry guard of the entire western world.
However, we made promises of security to Ukraine in return for their nuclear disarmament. It isn’t right that we turn our backs on them now.
Trump is a simpleton. He doesn’t truly understand the long-term butterfly effects of the decisions he’s making.
Europe pulled a good one on us […]
No, we did that to ourselves, by always cutting taxes instead of raising them to pay for things that are public goods, like single-payer health care, public transportation, public education, and so on. Our taxes are too low, and as a result we pay far, far more for the same things as private services rather than public. You can complain that the gov’t is inefficient, but there’s no profit; profit takes a far bigger bite than waste, inefficiency, and fraud does.
Great post! And I can see the point of most of that take.
My riposte, which I bring up frequently, is that a smart capitalist isn’t going to invest in American factories, knowing damned well they’ll be left holding the bag on a multi-million dollar facility when the tariffs drop.
That’s not even mentioning the employment costs, which are far more than most on lemmy understand. tl;dr: If I’m paying you $15hr., it’s costing me $30hr.
For Canada and Mexico and tarriffs in general. We need to bring manufacturing back to America and revitalize the rust belt.
For Canada anyway, there is a manufacturing trade surplus in favour of US. Canadians buy more autos than they make, and also provide affordability for US made products, through components. So it means a reduction in US manufacturing jobs, when better products are available from less hateful countries, and US made goods are too expensive for Americans.
Nailed it on the head. I think also that you need to include that Canada’s relationship vis-a-vis trade with China will be affected by tariffs the US is placing on Canada, and same with Mexico. I think much of everything is from the viewpoint that China is a bigger problem than Russia at the moment. China is also recovering from some economic turmoil, and one way to do so includes expanding their reach, and so the intent is to limit China in other areas.
I’m not a Republican, but I’ll bite.
The U.S. is kinda in a bad spot right now. Not just politically but economically as well. Our National Debt is the highest it’s ever been. While I’m 100% for taxing Billionaires and their Trillion dollars companies more, by like, a lot, the Billionaires of course don’t want that. So they’re trying to cut what they can and wheel and deal. Why support Climate Change (French EU thing, I don’t remember) acts when you can [pocket the money] use that to pay down debt? The War in Ukraine has unfortunately been drawn out too long for us to stay financially invested in it. Our allies across the sea won’t be able to help our country balance our debt when they have Ukraine to worry about as well. So they’ve decided to put pressure on every external source of revenue while cutting what they can without getting lynched.
Let’s talk about Canada and Mexico, but first, a bit of H I S T O R Y. Back in the 90s or 00s the Clinton Administration implemented NAFTA. The agreement sounded good on paper: Strength our border countries. Lifts us all up by giving all the countries jobs, more opportunity, more demand. While outsourcing our manual labor we can focus on the future: Technology! Hindsight is 20/20 though. Why not move our business to a country where we pay lower wages and will end up with higher profits for future investments (like yachts)? Why not get cheaper parts instead of paying the U.S. prices? A ton of manual labor jobs were lost, and many cities (car manufacturing cities, steel cities, etc.) simply never recovered. NAFTA stayed in place more or less until Trump Trumped it into the USMCA in 2020. That gets renegotiated in 2026 with all 3 countries either coming to an agreement or dissolving the agreement.
From all accounts, NAFTA certainly seemed harmful to the American industry at the time, but can that industry recover, and should it? Personally, I don’t think so, but they seem to think so. So, from my point of view, the reason they’re alienating allies is to extort them for money to help pay down the National Debt and hopefully grow back American industries lost over 2 decades ago.
Europe is socially progressive, and Russia conversely is anti-woke
I think they would say something like “our allies have been getting more from their alliances with us than we have been getting from those alliances, and we’re tired of being the donor in all these relationships.”
Of course, they are ignoring the fact that our alliances add up to American world domination, which has uniquely tremendous economic benefits for the US. They take that for granted though, feel entitled to it, don’t want to pay for it anymore because they don’t think it can ever change.
It’s just like their attitude on vaccines. They take herd immunity utterly for granted now and only see the minute risks of getting the shot themselves.
You realize some americans dont want to be part of world domination right?
I realize that a lot of people casually brush it aside as a very evil, imperial sounding thing without understanding what a basic organizing model it has been for most of the world for 70 years, and how much their own little personal reality depends on it, whether they get that or not.
Of course, they are ignoring the fact that our alliances add up to American world domination, which has uniquely tremendous economic benefits for the US.
It has tremendous economic benefits for the ruling class. And since the ruling class is the direct enemy of the people, the more they benefit, the more it hurts us.
The only people who actually benefit from the empire are politicians and Raytheon executives. Please explain to me how the average person working in an Amazon warehouse benefitted from, how much their “personal reality depended on,” shit like the invasion of Afghanistan.
The currency that person earns has more buying power around the world because of American empire. This is why people enter the US illegally to trim hedges, for example: because the money they’ll earn is worth so much when they send it home to family.
BOOM! And just like that, even your extremely cherry picked example is easily handled.
And in the meantime, their tax money has to go to support it, and the military equipment that’s produced for the war is brought home and given to police, where it can be used against protests and labor organizing. All in the name of “cheaper foreign goods,” which also means that it won’t be as profitable to produce goods domestically. Fucking Reaganite, supply side economics. Hey, notice how in the time we’ve been doing the thing you want, wages have become completely divorced from productivity and everything’s getting more expensive anyway?
“BOOM!” wow you really owned me, yeah you really showed me how stupid I am for thinking we shouldn’t kill millions of random brown people in the Middle East. Calling neoliberals like you the moderate wing of fascism is being way too generous, you’re literally just fascists.
Also, calling an Amazon worker “a cherry picked example” is so fucking revealing about which class you belong to. If you know a hundred employed people, on average, one of them would be currently working at Amazon - unless, of course, you don’t interact with the poors.
Got me, I’m the CEO of Raytheon. Yes, in fact, you were completely owned. And yes, in fact, an Amazon worker is a loaded representation of “the people.” But that’s fine, because I already pointed out how the impoverished continue to risk life and limb to come here for even worse jobs than that. Do you want to argue about whether your example was cherry picked so you can continue to ignore how thoroughly it was put down?
an Amazon worker is a loaded representation of “the people.”
Is it? Amazon and Walmart are the 2 biggest employers in the U.S. Like, there’s a big Walmart in almost every meaningful city or town, and on the outskirts of that town are usually Amazon Warehouses. Walmart, Amazon, Target, Home Depo, (Lowes is Walmart), etc. I feel like these really are representative of “the people”, or “the working man” in the U.S.
You are not the CEO of Raytheon, you’re a smug petite-bourgeois who stupidly thinks your interests have more in common with the CEO of Raytheon than with the people of Afghanistan. You’ve probably sold your soul for their blood money and become a loyal fascist ghoul, or if you haven’t yet, it’s what you aspire to.
And yes, in fact, an Amazon worker is a loaded representation of “the people.”
It absolutely is not. It’s an extremely common job. The second biggest employer in the US next to Walmart.
so you can continue to ignore how thoroughly it was put down?
It wasn’t put down at all, least of all not thoroughly. You just act like it was because you’re a smug asshole who thinks you’re better than everyone because you align with the “smart” establishment, completely ignoring actual reality and material class interests.
I hope some day you find yourself on the receiving end of what you support.
